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DanS is offline DanS
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This is a real whopper. The French government backed out of a $600 million deal to settle the Executive Life fraud affair. I don't know what they are thinking! The US attorney has the French state/Credit Agricole/Credit Lyonnaise sooo over the barrel on this one and everybody knows it.

Bigger organizations and people than these have been brought low in this country with litigation and regulation with nary a tear. And this is going to go on an on. The indictments and subpoenas are going to flow like a river. The attorneys fees alone will run into the tens of millions of dollars. And then at the end of the day, the jury will find out that 200,000 Californians were defrauded and the jury will be baying for blood.

So why don't they just eat their humble pie and settle the damn thing?

quote:
US set to publicise Executive Life charges
By Adrian Michaels in New York and Jo Johnson and Martin Arnold in Paris
Published: December 3 2003 20:55 | Last Updated: December 3 2003 20:55

US prosecutors were preparing on Wednesday to go public with criminal charges against prominent French financial institutions and individuals following the breakdown of talks in the Executive Life affair.

The US attorney's office in Los Angeles - a branch of the justice department - already has indictments under seal that allege wrongdoing in the takeover by Credit Lyonnais of Executive Life, a US insurer, in 1991.

This week's breakdown in talks looked irreparable, people on all sides said on Wednesday. Nonetheless they warned that the threat of reputational damage to France when the indictments are unsealed could yet bring the sides back into negotiations.

A deal involving a $585m (€484m) payment and limited recognition of guilt that the insurance bail-out was fraudulently arranged was scuppered because it did not provide legal protection for François Pinault, the retail magnate and friend of Jacques Chirac, French president.

The indictments will not be unsealed for at least a couple of weeks, people close to the talks said.

The French state has assumed responsibility for many of the bad debts and liabilities of the bank, which has since merged with Credit Agricole, and whose licence in the US could be revoked if it is indicted.

The likelihood that France will soon find itself in the dock before a Californian jury provoked dismay in Paris yesterday. The tone of French newspaper editorials has switched from anti-Americanism to criticism of Mr Chirac. His decision to scupper the plan has been judged risky.

Separately, the Executive Life affair is also putting strain on the relationship between Mr Pinault and Lyonnais. A senior Agricole executive said Mr Pinault had requested a fresh loan of "several tens of million euros" from Lyonnais to help cover his potential exposure to the Executive Life affair. However, the executive said Agricole was not keen to agree to the new loan. A spokesperson for Artemis, Mr Pinault's holding company, has denied he faces funding difficulties.

Last edited by DanS on 04-12-2003 at 07:42

GePap is offline GePap
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Wow..how utterly dry and boring..just like most White Collar crime.

DanS is offline DanS
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A good chunk of the French business elite being brought up on criminal charges in the US doesn't stir your interest?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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1) This one is mainly for the French Polytubbies. Has Chirac ever been this blatant with his connections to certain people in the business world before?

2) A good chunk of the French business elite being brought up on criminal charges in the US doesn't stir your interest?

I couldn't tell from the article but how many people besides François Pinault are of interest to the prosecutors?

I must say though that I join you in your confusion over the French are thus far refusing to settle (surrender ).

GePap is offline GePap
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
A good chunk of the French business elite being brought up on criminal charges in the US doesn't stir your interest?


NO. white colar crime is boring as heck, which is why it is possible to get away with it.

Want to peak my interest? Make the penalty for being found guilty death by quartering, instead of the usual money changing hands.

Inverse Icarus is offline Inverse Icarus
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let's loot the money they owe us.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
I couldn't tell from the article but how many people besides François Pinault are of interest to the prosecutors?


Quite a few, I would imagine, including the former head of Lyonnaise. Keep in mind that Credit Lyonnaise was owned by the French state for a good chunk of the time that this fraud occured. So it is said that the US wants $500 million from the state and $275 million from Pinault to settle. The trial would ask for $3 billion damages plus any punitive damages the jury awards.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 08:39 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Oops. Forgot to mention $2.5 billion in restitution that the State of California will be seeking in a separate suit, if the French don't play ball.

Here's a "Barbarians at the Gate", really interesting article excerpt by the Institutional Investor. I wish Sten or somebody else would stop by and copy the entire article from their web site with his subscription.

http://www.institutionalinvestor.co...ISS=4523&PUB=31

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 08:42 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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So THAT'S how Ahnold is gonna balance the budget

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 08:45 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Here's a teaser for the Institutional Investor...

quote:
On January 16, as France prepared to publicly denounce American policy toward Iraq, a senior French government official arrived at the U.S. Justice Department in Washington, D.C., to beg, in secret, for mercy.

It was afternoon, and the emissary, Jean-David Levitte, France's dapper ambassador to the U.S. and a close confidant of President Jacques Chirac, was shown to a small, plain conference room on the second floor of the Justice Department's imposing limestone-and-granite headquarters, which occupy an entire block formed by Pennsylvania and Constitution Avenues and 9th and 10th Streets. He was accompanied by several aides and a pair of prominent, high-priced American lawyers. Across a long, narrow table they faced a phalanx of senior U.S. officials.

"Please understand the importance of Crédit Lyonnais to the French government," Levitte pleaded, as snow fell steadily in the tall windows that looked out on 10th Street. "It would be devastating if it were indicted."

Ned is offline Ned
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 08:46
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Chirac is starting to sound a lot like Clinton who amassed millions in exchange for pardons during the closing days of his administration. One of those investigations, I have heard, is still ongoing and leading right at HRC.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
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I bet Bush is getting a good laugh over THAT

Tripledoc is offline Tripledoc
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Jan 2003
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 09:39
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The charges brought upon the French are obviously politically motivated.

Ned is offline Ned
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Not unlike the French-directed, retaliatory tarriffs (from the US steel tarriffs) targeting critical Bush states in the next elections.

Wittlich is offline Wittlich

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Now boys - Let's not turn this thread into a America slap France - France slap America Thread!.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
The charges brought upon the French are obviously politically motivated.
Yeah, hundreds of thousands of voters being defrauded tend to motivate people to file charges. Would you care to deal with real issues rather than descend to pointless trolls?

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
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May 1999
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So when will Ashcroft do something about the Enron cretins? What, they have too many connections?

Cool avatar, Wittlich

Wittlich is offline Wittlich

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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
1. So when will Ashcroft do something about the Enron
cretins? What, they have too many connections?


2. Cool avatar, Wittlich



1. That's exactly it UR! Money DOES make the world go around!

2. Thanks, all credit for my Christmas Avatar goes to Hueij - He squared me away in the Community Forum within the Christmas Avatar thread.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
So when will Ashcroft do something about the Enron cretins? What, they have too many connections?
If you weren't so ignorant of the facts this would be more fun, but as it is a quick google search gives lie to the statement. I also seem to recall you removing a similarly stupid post in one of the Iraq threads for threadjacking. I suppose it only counts when people in the peanut gallery do it.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 10:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Tripledoc
The charges brought upon the French are obviously politically motivated.


TheStinger is offline TheStinger
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Apr 2002
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  Old Post 04-12-2003 14:51
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I think any western capatilist nation should be very careful about crticising another nations standards in business.

Lets face it we've all got a lot of dodgy businessmen.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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Interesting case.

From now on, when a foreign investor contemplates to take over a US firm (particularly if it is broke), he will have better ask first for a justice clearance, if he does not want to be investigated 7 years later and brought to court 12 years later.

I am not sure that this is good for the $.

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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I don't know why their going after France, they don't have any money. France has such a poor business environment that most of their companies move to pro business nations like the US and UK to survive.

Course, maybe we can forclose and annex France financially. It would give us two Security Council votes.........


"And France votes........hold on a sec....... I need to check with my parent country............."

Verto is offline Verto

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quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
I don't know why their going after France, they don't have any money. France has such a poor business environment that most of companies move to pro business nations like the US and UK to survive.

Course, maybe we can forclose and annex France finacially. It would give us two Security Council votes.........


"And France votes........hold on a sec....... I need to check with my parent country............."



Nice.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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Well, Chirac and his party has good friends in the business. It is sometimes blatant, but we usually don't care...

I recall this wonderful moment with the construction of the Great Stadium. THere were two competitors: Bouygues, which happens to be a big masonry company + the holder of France's main TV station ( ) and an independent consortium led by an architect.

Since Bouygues had enough taste to give enough money to the right people, and since Bouygues consistently supports the right-wing in its TV channel, it won the contest. But since the other side had the best project, the other side's plan were gently given to Bouygues.

This blatant case of corruption was solved by a law voted by the right-wing majority in the Parliament. The EU could yell, but France stalled for long enough for an amiable agreement to be found with the indep. architect.

Chirac has tons of corruption affairs behind him, but corruption is so widely spread in France nobody cares that much,sadly.

Az is offline Az
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quote:
Since Bouygues had enough taste to give enough money to the right people

You mean bribery, right? This was awfully vague.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
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Surprisingly, the hand of Chirac cannot be found in any of the Credit Lyonnais scandals; they were all manufactured by socialists for the benefit of socialists.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
From now on, when a foreign investor contemplates to take over a US firm (particularly if it is broke), he will have better ask first for a justice clearance, if he does not want to be investigated 7 years later and brought to court 12 years later.


And particularly if it is a state-owned enterprise engaging in fraud.

One thing to note is that this really isn't a political issue in the US. We don't have it in for France on this particular issue and and we have no criticism of French business wrt fraud in general (or at least I don't sense it). But we might have a lot of criticism after the dirty laundry has been aired for several years.

One interesting aspect of this is that our country has many fewer state-owned enterprises and nobody from the president down to the jury members is going to cut Credit Lyonnais any slack. It doesn't matter if it was an appendage of the French government and any damages will come from the pocket of the French taxpayer.

quote:
I am not sure that this is good for the $.


I think this is very instructive. Pinault made excellent money on this deal. But fraud can ruin you in the US really fast, if you are caught. Just ask Andersen.

Last edited by DanS on 04-12-2003 at 20:41

GhengisFarb is offline GhengisFarb
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
One thing to note is that this really isn't a political issue in the US. We don't have it in for France on this particular issue and and we have no criticism of French business wrt fraud in general (or at least I don't sense it). But we might have a lot of criticism after the dirty laundry has been aired for several years.

What US are you talking about? France-bashing is always good for a double digit jump in the popularity polls in the United States.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
What US are you talking about? France-bashing is always good for a double digit jump in the popularity polls in the United States.


No it isn't. Show me one poll that had any discernible jump when the politicians started to bash France.

It's a popular pastime, but of no consequence here.

 
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