05-12-2003 11:06									#1
	Israel has done more for Palestinians then any other country in the world Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I was thinking about it..... the Israeli's kicked the palestinians out of Israel en mass, right? Oh wait no they didnt! Israel isnt using them as a political pawn to fight against the west.... That puts them leagues ahead of most of Israel's neighbors....

	05-12-2003 11:15									#3
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Done more for, in the aspect it has harmed them less then any of its neighbors.

Go to lebanon or Jordan, they get treated REAL nice there compared to Israel, let me tell ya...

	05-12-2003 11:18									#4
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But "Israel isnt using them as a political pawn to fight against the west" makes not much sense IMO because Israel isnīt fighting against the west at all....

	05-12-2003 11:19									#5
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It isnt using them as a political tool against the east either..... Israel dosent have a vested interest in WANTING the palestinians to be landless.... they want a resolution, the details are just taking er.... decades to be resolved. The last thing any of the arab states wants is a palestinian state, let alone a democratic one!

	05-12-2003 11:27									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen Go to lebanon or Jordan, they get treated REAL nice there compared to Israel, let me tell ya...

I don't know about Jordan, but I don't think Lebanon owes the Palestinians anything. They pretty much ruined their country. Not single handedly, though, of course.

	05-12-2003 12:03									#7
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro

I think this sums up Vesayens latest troll quite accurately:

	05-12-2003 20:11									#8
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This wasent a troll attempt.

	05-12-2003 21:17									#9
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	05-12-2003 21:44									#10
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Yup, they sure did alot for them. Immigrated en masse to where they live, subjugate them into second-class citizens, kick them off much of their best land, refuse to let refugees return home, etc. etc.

	06-12-2003 03:54									#11
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It might not have been a troll attempt, but it was badly phrased.

Has Israel treated the palestinians who they could not remove in time better than any of the neighboring Arab states? Yes, israel has. Has it treated the palestinians in the territories better than palestinians outside in other Arab states? Arguable..certainly Syria and lebanon have treated the Pal refugees terribly..Jordan and Egypt not so bad, and the Gulf States did deport most of their pals after the first gulf war, which I guess mirrors Israeli behavior.

Has Israel treated the Palestinians well? Not at all. The only thing you prove is that most of the Arab states are immense hypocrites when it comes to the issue of the palestinians, and clearly use the issue for internal political reasons, mainly to justify their autocratic systems.

	06-12-2003 04:05									#12
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According to Nelson Mandela, Israel treats Palestinians worse than Black people were treated in Apartheid South Africa. SA never dropped bombs on the ghettos.

	06-12-2003 04:13									#13
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Honestly, who cares what Mandela says?

	06-12-2003 04:15									#14
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He's something of an expert on how Black South Africans were treated.

	06-12-2003 04:18									#15
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quote: Has Israel treated the Palestinians well? Not at all. The only thing you prove is that most of the Arab states are immense hypocrites when it comes to the issue of the palestinians, and clearly use the issue for internal political reasons, mainly to justify their autocratic systems.

But we all knew that.

	06-12-2003 04:22									#16
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara According to Nelson Mandela, Israel treats Palestinians worse than Black people were treated in Apartheid South Africa. SA never dropped bombs on the ghettos.

Did the blacks ever use suicide bombers to blow up white people?

	06-12-2003 04:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara He's something of an expert on how Black South Africans were treated.

But he is not a greater expert on how the pals are treated than really any person who has studied the area. Which is the problem.

Everyone here knows my general sympathy lies with the Palestinian people..but hyperbole vs the Israeli is not helpful (like hyperbole is ever helpful). Israel is not YET an apartheid state, becuase Jews outnumber Arabs in israel, and the territories are not part of Israel. Now, with time, Israel will have to come to grips with the reality that unless every Jew from around the world migrates to Israel or the standard of living of pals jumps up dramatically thus cutting thier birthrate, or all Jews start having kids like the ultraorthodox, or all Pals are driven form the land (none look likely, and only one of those seems attractive) the population between the Jordan river and the Mediterranean will be overwhlemingly not Jewish in about 50 years.

	06-12-2003 04:23									#18
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Did the blacks ever use suicide bombers to blow up white people?

No, But mandela was labelled a terrorist. And suicude bombers begun about 10 years ago. The Israelis were not nicer during the first, suicide-bomber free intifadah.

	06-12-2003 04:31									#19
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Israel didn't use armor or aviation, then.

	06-12-2003 04:32									#20
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Also, IIRC this topic has already been discussed before.

	06-12-2003 04:33									#21
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Becuase there was no PA territory- everything was already in Israel hands, nothing to "re-occupy", which is what the Armor is for. But house demolitions and exiling people form Gaza to the West Bank did go on, and torture of prisoners was common enough.

	06-12-2003 04:33									#22
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Also, IIRC this topic has already been discussed before.

Please show us one that hasn't.

	06-12-2003 04:38									#25
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Becuase there was no PA territory- everything was already in Israel hands, nothing to "re-occupy", which is what the Armor is for. But house demolitions and exiling people form Gaza to the West Bank did go on, and torture of prisoners was common enough.

The armor isn't used only then. what gave you that idea? it also patrols open ground and is used as reinforcement for infantry during clashes, i.e. if a force comes under attack, the reinforsements will be tanks.

	06-12-2003 04:46									#26
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Were the Pals as well armed the first time? NO. It seems simple enough. But Rabin's little Iron Fist policy back in '87 and 88 is what begun to drive so much public opinion against Israel, well, that on top of Lebanon.