06-12-2003 09:34									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Last edited by Paddy the Scot on 07-12-2003 at 13:39

	06-12-2003 10:53									#32
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Wow! ... and I *thought* I was enjoying the game as it is at the moment .... just shows you how wrong I can be ...

	06-12-2003 12:22									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

That was my whole point, why not use the free beta tester in a massive way as the did with GalCiv.
The game is hailed in most all of the reviews now.
The net allows for speedy feedback and implementation. Waiting until you have most of the bugs identified and then patched makes the process too long.
Their way gets rid of all the requirements to document all of the tester work. With socre or even 100 testers you have to control things to attempt to get all the bases covered. With 1500 players or more you don't need that as the pool is large enough to ensure all aspects are tried.

	06-12-2003 16:43									#34
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

they could even nominate few people at ACS, CFC and similar larger sites to bundle and summarize the issues, so they wouldn't even need to browse the forums.

	06-12-2003 17:50									#35
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quote: Originally posted by pauli it's less broken than smax, and nobody calls THAT unenjoyable.

How is SMAX broken? The only serious problem I've seen discussed is how the Data angels don't really get their probe bonus, and given that they're not an essential part of the game, that doesn't make it unplayable. On the other hand, taking the one way to reduce the ridiculous amounts of corruption and simply breaking it, as was done in Conquests, really does make it unenjoyable later in the game.

	06-12-2003 18:17									#36
	Tired of ads?

How was SMAX broken? AI that just wasn't there. It never even played the satellite game in any game I played. The implementation of collateral damage makes no sense. It was really easy to mount an effective military campaign. Just to name a few. (This is not to say I didn't enjoy it, I did. I still consider it broken, though).

	06-12-2003 18:28									#37
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf they could even nominate few people at ACS, CFC and similar larger sites to bundle and summarize the issues, so they wouldn't even need to browse the forums.

For the FP and corruption fixes, all they need is alexman.

For the gpt fix, all they need is any player who is able to add two numbers together.

I don't care much about other, "minor" fixes. They can take their time with them till mid of next year for all I care. It's the FP, RCP-fix and GPT bugs that make the game broken.

	06-12-2003 19:18									#38
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: For the FP and corruption fixes, all they need is alexman.

Hehe, I did think it was kind of funny that 5 minutes after he installed C3C he came up with it, something no-one else had noticed before... (or just didn't or wasn't allowed to mention )

	06-12-2003 19:20									#39
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph For the gpt fix, all they need is any player who is able to add two numbers together.

I think they have too many people who like adding two numbers together, when perhaps one will do.

	06-12-2003 20:50									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph I don't care much about other, "minor" fixes. They can take their time with them till mid of next year for all I care. It's the FP, RCP-fix and GPT bugs that make the game broken.

Exactly my sentiment. At the moment, I'm modding based on the C3C editor, but playing PtW v1.29.

(I'm even tempted to mod Conquest features in PtW as far as possible, e.g. higher upgrade costs. )

	08-12-2003 02:48									#41
	Inflate your Upload Space

I seem to be crashing to desktop alot. Every 2-4 hours of gameplay it would display a message about buffering or something along those lines then crash. Thank god for autosaves. If this one problem was fixed I wouldn't mind waiting a year between patches.

Has anyone noticed how laggy it is in multiplayer ? I played a lan game and there was a 1.5 second delay on moving troops and accessing towns. Since i'm pretty much a newb to the multiplayer seen in civ3 i was wondering if anyone knew a quick fix for this

	08-12-2003 07:29									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Ouch that hurt! I'm playing and enjoying at present.........but only up till AD or so. For the purposes of seeing some of the new things and kicking about possible strat changes it is playable. But make no mistake about it, the 2 bugs in question are immensely huge, and make playing on the highest levels problematic. Sure on Monarch the problems are more hidden, because you can pretty much do anthing and still easily win. Overall I do feel, as do many others, some surprise that 2 immensely huge bugs could get through the testing process.

Sorry, but I am really quite surprised by the reactions, as I have not seen any issue in several games. I have noticed the FP creating extra corruption near the Palace, but without deliberate RCP it is not devastating, nor is it something I consider game-breaking. The gpt thing I haven't even noticed, and overall the game is working fine (if perhaps my mastery of the SoZ has been a little too much for the poor AI! )

I just don;t like seeing statements that remind me of when Civ first came out. THAT was nasty, and I hope none of us get all sulky just in case some of these "bugs" are not fixed.

	08-12-2003 15:21									#43
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Sorry, but I am really quite surprised by the reactions, as I have not seen any issue in several games. I have noticed the FP creating extra corruption near the Palace, but without deliberate RCP it is not devastating, nor is it something I consider game-breaking. The gpt thing I haven't even noticed, and overall the game is working fine (if perhaps my mastery of the SoZ has been a little too much for the poor AI! ) I just don;t like seeing statements that remind me of when Civ first came out. THAT was nasty, and I hope none of us get all sulky just in case some of these "bugs" are not fixed.

Well you're entitled to think that. But many players who started out by making such arguments changed their minds when they looked a little harder at the game.

I think a distinction should be drawn between people whinging at game features they didn't like when Civ3 came out, and whinging at what I will once again call a range of game-breaking bugs now.

Twice you've made posts to imply you think that they might not even be bugs, and hence might not get patched, like some of the new Civ 3 features 2 years ago. To be honest I really don't see how any experienced player could think that.

	08-12-2003 18:45									#44
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Most of us do not "whine" about the game. Speaking for myself, I actually consider C3C to be a very good game, it's for certain the best Civ game that was ever released. I think the game is well balanced, the unit concept very good and the Conquests scenarios just awesome. I expect from this game the best playing experience and many, many joyful hours. But the current state of the game is, that it is ridden by major bugs, which are enormous fun killers, especially in the higher difficulty levels, where every shield and every gold counts. To play with a broken game would frustrate me, and I just don't want to get frustrated over Conquests. Therefor I use it for scenario creating only and wait for the true release of Conquests (the day the game breaking bugs are fixed), while playing PtW v1.27.

	08-12-2003 18:54									#45
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I seriously doubt we are going to see a beta patch. Atari doesn't seem to work that way.

It's a shame, too, because the game just feels like it is so close to being where it should be. In fact, I am playing into the Modern Era and not getting bored for the first time since way back when Civ3 first came out. I usually wrap up a game as soon as the UN becomes available, because I just can't be bothered with the tedium of researching the Modern tech tree. But that appears to have changed - I'm actually in a Modern was with an AI that can fight back. Very nice.

Anyway..... I get the feeling we'll have to wait. Let's just hope they get it right the first time.

	08-12-2003 19:31									#46
	Suffering from ads?

The gpt bug is quite a nuisance in some of the Conquests. In AoD I was selling techs and happily funding outrageous amounts of expenditure on research to get more techs to sell. At one point fairly late on I was on 20% lux and 80% science. The screen said I was losing 40 gpt but my treasury was actually going up turn on turn. It does take a bit of the fun out of the game so I really hope they fix this one quick.

	08-12-2003 21:47									#47
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I have never been able to get a gpt deal.

I have offered all my tech to AI's for 1 gpt and they say they'd never accept such a deal.

Is it a difficulty thing? I usually play on Monarch.

	08-12-2003 22:02									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader I have never been able to get a gpt deal. I have offered all my tech to AI's for 1 gpt and they say they'd never accept such a deal. Is it a difficulty thing? I usually play on Monarch.

There are a number of reason why the AI will say it will never accept such a deal.
One is that it involves a city. If it includes something that requires a tech or structures one of you does not have. If you have broken
deals before. If they are planning to attack you.

	08-12-2003 22:39									#49
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Also, the AI never makes gpt deals while in Despotism.

	08-12-2003 22:43									#50
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Interesting. It might be a Despotism thing. I often tried that early in the game, concluded that it didn't work and never tried it again. Thanks.

	09-12-2003 02:01									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

garth as from approx. mid medieval ages you can usually sell techs to certanly at least 3 civs for gpt deals. if you can keep the 4-5 turn/tech pace, you can bleed them dry... they'll pay so much, that they reduce their research to get money. this may be another human exploit (which i usually hate) but it works.

ïn some UP (ultimate power) games you can keep up 4 turns/tech with 100% science and still make a profit. there have been threads showing people earning over 1000 gold per turn just through trade. i think i never got higher than 500, but then i never played huge maps for a long time...

	09-12-2003 07:05									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph Also, the AI never makes gpt deals while in Despotism.

Is that what it is? I always thought it was due to them researching at 100% (much like me) for much of the early game.

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Twice you've made posts to imply you think that they might not even be bugs, and hence might not get patched, like some of the new Civ 3 features 2 years ago. To be honest I really don't see how any experienced player could think that.

Well I'll just count myself in the minority, and very glad I am one of the few who seems to be actually enjoying C3C then...

	09-12-2003 07:45									#53
	Increase the size of your Attachments

AI never accepts a GPT deal that would result in them running a deficit.

For that matter the AI doesn't credit you with GPTs past the point in which you'd run a deficit. (This makes it kind of annoying when you have a large gold stockpile and want to spend it down gradually becuase you need to lower the science bar before contacting and then raise it up after contacting.) Of course, if the GPT bug works both ways, you might not want to be making GPT deals right now.

	09-12-2003 12:23									#54
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Is that what it is? I always thought it was due to them researching at 100% (much like me) for much of the early game.

Yes, this may be the reason of this phenomenon.

	09-12-2003 17:51									#55
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt Well I'll just count myself in the minority, and very glad I am one of the few who seems to be actually enjoying C3C then...

I doubt it's a minority........I know Ralph and some others aren't playing yet, but many who have reservations are playing in a limited fashion, usually up to AD. It's a good game, and I will enjoy it a whole lot more when it is fixed I'd say. However, more and more players seem to be reaching the point where the bugs are constraining their enjoyment.

So to summarise, we are not really Civ3 haters like many of the posters you refer to from 2 years ago. We like the game, but are disappointed by the constraints the bugs impose.

	09-12-2003 18:32									#56
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well, I'm enjoying it but the bugs are a pain. I have a really nice epic game underway which I have just left waiting for a patch and am playing the scenarios until then.

	10-12-2003 08:03									#57
	Suffering from ads?

Good news:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=103730

Civ III: Conquests Patch Notice


Civ III Community:

Next week, we will be releasing a BETA patch (v1.10) for
C3C that adds some new features and addresses
the corruption & gpt bugs (as well as other
fixes - see below).

QA efforts demonstrated the stability of the
code base, so we decided to release even though
the patch is not final. This was the only way to
get a patch posted prior to Christmas.

If additional issues present themselves we will
make every effort to release another BETA
update. We greatly appreciate your assistance in
notifying us of problems that you experience
(forum posts are the most convenient format).

The final update will not be released until Q2,
2004.

Thank you for all of the incredible support!!

Jesse Smith

Producer, Firaxis Games


---------------------------------------------
Updates BETA v1.10:
CIV III: CONQUESTS BETA v1.10
* Fixed issues with corruption

* Fixed issues with double gold being awarded

* Shifted minimap and unit info boxes slightly
inward to prevent problems with scrolling and
button-clicking.

* Re-enabled Intel optimizations from PTW.

* Fixed issue that caused scientific leaders to
use only the first name in the list.

* Fixed issue that caused selections on the
Foreign Advisor screen to be cleared.

* Modified combat calculations to make combat
appear less "streaky." Combat results are now
calculated multiple times before determining a
result. This should reduce spearman defeating
Tanks and other extremely frustrating combat
results.

* Optimized main menu code.

* Cleaned up INI preferences code

* Fixed issue with the audio preferences (sound
volume).

* Greatly improved the ability of Seafaring civs
to start near the coast. It should happen most
of the time now.

* Fixed numerous problems with Seafaring civs
starting near the coast in hotseat games.

* Implemented Seafaring civs starting near the
coast in MP games.

* Updated the interface on the world chooser
screen so selected options were more apparent.

* Fixed upgrade all bug (for units that do not
have the upgrade ability but are part of the
upgrade chain).

* Added feminine titles for Despotism,
Feudalism, and Fascism (for English default
rules only!).

* Editor: Added Flavors to the Import dialog.

* Corrected display of silk as luxury in city
view in Rise of Rome

* Corrected Scourge of God splash screen art in
Fall of Rome

* Build road/fort animations now show for
Legionary in Fall of Rome

* Cataphract now uses Ancient Cavalry art in
Middle Ages

* Corrected Mining tech art in Age of Discovery

* Text: Several civilopedia fixes (mostly
spelling, grammar, spaces)

---------------- Features --------------------
* Implemented ability to enter a seed value on
the world setup screen. It is located in the
upper-right corner. Any character can be entered
as the seed. If the seed is 0 (the default), it
will generate the world normally. If every
character is a number, the value is interpreted
as the seed value and used to generate the
world. In all other cases, a hash table formula
is applied to the string to generate a unique
value that is used to generate the world. While
it is technically possible for two different
strings to evaluate to the same seed, it is
unlikely (i.e., SEED is not the same as DEES --
upper- and lower-case letters will yield
different results as well).

* Implemented the "Play Last World" option. This
option appears on the main menu after playing
the first SP random-map game. When chosen, the
player is taken to the world chooser with the
seed filled in and all the previous settings
selected. The player can make any changes or
keep the world exactly the same. Note that if
ANY changes are made on this screen, the map
that is generated will be different. Next the
player is taken to the player setup screen with
all the civs and settings from the previous game
selected. Again, the player can make any changes
or keep the settings the same. If ANY civs are
changed, player starting locations MAY change
(depending on the number of seafaring civs,
actually).

* Implemented support for CAPS LOCK to work as
the SHIFT key to skip unit movement animations
(so you don't have to hold shift for the AI's
turn to skip the animations).

* The MP timer values are now read from
scenarios (the default values remain unchanged).

* Editor: Added MP timer values to the Scenario
Properties. There are 3 values: Base, Per Unit,
and Per City (with defaults of 24, 1, and 3,
respectively). They represent the Base amount of
time per turn + the amount of time Per Unit +
the amount of time Per City (number of
units/cities used each turn are based on the
player with the most units and the player with
the most cities on that turn). The values can
range from 0-100. The higher the number, the
more time per turn. FOR INTENSE FAST MP GAMES
PLAY THE CONQUESTS FAST MP scenario that is
provided with the Patch.

-- Please Thank Mike Breitkreutz for his efforts!

	10-12-2003 08:35									#58
	Remove this text

I would like to know more about the combat tweaks.

	10-12-2003 14:39									#59
	Put an end to popups!

Well smack my ass and call me Shirley. My hat is truly off.

	10-12-2003 14:42									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Your avatar says you lie, Shirley.