06-12-2003 01:41									#1
	What was your most unlikely battle victory/defeat? Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I'm just talking about a single battle where you overcame great odds to win or lost despite having a huge advantage. Either between stacks of units or between individual units. I don't know if it makes a difference to the outcome what difficulty level you play.

Last night, I had a Veteran Numidian Mercenary killed by a concscript barbarian warrior who escaped without a scratch. I was playing an Emperor game.

	06-12-2003 02:43									#2
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You are correct the level has no impact. I have had all kinds of strange out comes, but to tell you the truth after a few hours, I forget them.
I do recall a spear beating a tank in vanilla civ, but I have not seen in again. Then again, I don't see tanks vs spears much either.

	06-12-2003 03:49									#3
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Last night I had a pretty bad one.

I was 'just playing a few more turns' on the mesopotamia conquest after I had achieved a victory point win as egypt.

My 3 unit calvary army (5 attack + army mod, 13 hp) went up against a veteran spearman in a size 4 city on a hill.

The army was knocked down to 1 hp... the spearman lost 2 hp.

That was the last of my 'few more turns'.

	06-12-2003 04:29									#4
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I tend to remember my defeats better than my victories .

I once (civ vanilla or PTW) had a 12 HP all-cavalry army retreat with 1 HP after failing to take even a single HP from a veteran rifleman unfortified on grassland.

Difficulty level will play a role in barbarian battles -- at all levels except Deity the human gets a combat bonus against barbarians -- at emperor it is 50%, so your numidian merc was defending with a value of 4.5 plus whatever terrain bonus it was entitled to.

Catt

	06-12-2003 04:35									#5
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Catt, your PM box is full.

	06-12-2003 04:37									#6
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I haven't ever seen a spearman defeat a tank, but I did have a tank lose to a pikeman once. It wasn't too bad though since the game was almost won at the time.

The one that I usually remember though is when I had an elite knight attacking a catapult-damaged, unfortified regular warrior on grassland. My knight got creamed, didn't retreat, and the warrior didn't even lose a single HP.

	06-12-2003 05:52									#7
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Longbow takes MI (admittedly at 1 hp).

I've had lots of near misses... an Army left with 1 hp on defense or attack, that kind of thing.

	06-12-2003 06:25									#8
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Just had an amazing victory in a PBEM game with my brother. A single medieval infantry killed his full health immortal army.

I could post the save so we all could relive it.

	06-12-2003 06:59									#9
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It seems like every time I attack a spearman with a tank that the tank ends up losing, although the spearman ends up being half dead, so I end up killing it with something else anyways in the same turn. So I'm used to it - it would probably bother me if it stoped happening.

	06-12-2003 12:49									#10
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quote: Originally posted by SirOsis Just had an amazing victory in a PBEM game with my brother. A single medieval infantry killed his full health immortal army.

I always thought those two "medieval" units were a little overpowered...

quote: Originally posted by SirOsis I could post the save so we all could relive it.

The random seed was preserved?

	06-12-2003 13:19									#11
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I assume so. I will have to check. If it is I'll post it up here.

	06-12-2003 18:14									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Catt I tend to remember my defeats better than my victories . I once (civ vanilla or PTW) had a 12 HP all-cavalry army retreat with 1 HP after failing to take even a single HP from a veteran rifleman unfortified on grassland. Difficulty level will play a role in barbarian battles -- at all levels except Deity the human gets a combat bonus against barbarians -- at emperor it is 50%, so your numidian merc was defending with a value of 4.5 plus whatever terrain bonus it was entitled to. Catt

I was defender in the battle. Not fortified. Do barbs get a bonus depending on aggression setting? I always play SP games w/barbs = raging.

	06-12-2003 22:31									#13
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quote: Originally posted by bfg9000 I was defender in the battle. Not fortified. Do barbs get a bonus depending on aggression setting? I always play SP games w/barbs = raging.

No bonus for for "raging" -- it just increases the frequency of barbcamps and the number of barbs spawned.

And what I meant by te 4.5 defense is that your numidian merc is a base defense of "3." At emperor against barbarians, you get a 50% bonus - so the 3 becomes 4.5. Whether or not fortified, defenders get a terrain defensive bonus - between 10% for flatlands like plains, grassland, desert, etc. to 100% for mountains (with hills, forests, jungles, etc. giving either 25% - 50%, can't remeber each specifically). A fortified unit gets another 25% bonus.

So, at emperor, an unfortified numdian merc on a hill, for example, would get base defense of 3; 50% bonus (1.5) for hill; and 50% bonus (1.5) against barbs -- it would defend at "6." On flatlands, it would defend at 4.8 (not sure how the rounding works with combat calculations).

Catt

	06-12-2003 22:31									#14
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Two German Veteran Knights landed on my island city defended by one regular spearman and one regular warrior. The first knight died on the spear. The second knight killed the spear, but died on the next turn when he went against the warrior.


And I saw my elite tank be whipped by a veteran Impi on Civ3 1.29. I thought it was pretty funny.

	07-12-2003 01:56									#15
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Hmm, the other night two of my fortified veteran musketmen and an elite cavalry unit sat on a hill in a city, and were attacked by two regular longbowmen and a regular medieval infantry. The enemy beat all three units without losing a single health point- in fact, two of those units had more health after the attack than when they went in thanks to promotions (Dunno about the third unit as the fog of war came up, but it wouldn't surprise me).

	07-12-2003 06:39									#16
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*Any* battle between two armies is always awesome. I've had quite a few where both have gone right down into the red... nailbiting stuff!

	07-12-2003 18:30									#17
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(My luckiest battle victory was conquering Amsterdam the turn after it built the Temple of Artemis. Zing!)

	07-12-2003 22:50									#18
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I was playing Emperor when this happened. My single veteran warrior was unfortified on a grass land and beat around 20 barb horseman.

	08-12-2003 03:34									#19
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Medieval/ Industrial units often seem to get lucky with more modern ones - is this some sort of bug in the game? For instance a tank has 16 attack, a pikeman has 3-6 defense depending on terrain, but you seem to get periods of results where these units cancel each other out 1 for 1.

Also, some units seem to offend more than others. Medieval infantry (4.2.1) seem to have greater success rates than Knights (4.3.2) for example. Anyone else noticed this?

	08-12-2003 04:45									#20
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Well, it isn't really lucky or anything, but in my last game the Mongols in their foolishness declared war on me in the Ancient era. I didn't have the resources to attack and conquer them, but I couldn't just watch them throw units up to suicide against my cities.

It just so happened that I had a Warrior running around on their other border that had just been exploring. I rushed him to their cities and pillaged the hell out of everything in sight. He took on about 2 or 3 of their archers attempting to kill him, which is the unlikely part...end result, their cities were reduced to rubble by a single warrior. The Mongol dogs wisely requested peace, and I gave it to them at a price.

	08-12-2003 05:44									#21
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A 4-elite modern armor army in C3C (so it had bonuses) lost to a conscript barbarian warrior unfortified on grassland with no defense bonuses on Chieftan once....

j/k

	08-12-2003 19:51									#22
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I wouldn't be surprised

	08-12-2003 20:23									#23
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Ok here is the save of the Med Inf taking out the immortal army.

Look for the tough bastard between Troy and Isandhlwana. At the center of the map.

Attachment: sirosis-930ad.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	09-12-2003 20:41									#24
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My spearman beating a battleship in Civ1.

	09-12-2003 20:50									#25
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Most unlikely victory was a Diplo win after I'd been to war with most of the world.

Just into the modern Age, Rome decides to attack me. A few alliances and bribes later, everyone loves me. My next leader finishes the United Nations and the rest is history.

It's like the AI spontanteously committed suicide (Deity or Emperor level - NOT what I expected).

	09-12-2003 20:53									#26
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quote: Originally posted by East Street Trader My spearman beating a battleship in Civ1.

That brings back some memories.... Yes, they chucked their spears at the battleship, one got stuck in the tailpipe and the whole ship blew up like the USS Maine in the Spanish-American War... heh heh

Obviously the bombardment concept was born and introduced later....

My greatest battle defeat was an epic battle on a frontier town.... it was situated on a hill guarded with two bored spearman. I can only imagine their surprise as they sat around this sleepy town, playing cards, drinking whisky when suddenly the town crier screamed "RAGING BARBARIANS....RAGING BARBARIANS..."

I counted 12 Horseman charging on the tiny hill town. The first spearman killed two horseman, damaged a third before he succumed to the enemy. The lone spearman killed the next eight attacking horseman before he was killed. (he started as "regular" ended up "elite" and was killed anyway). What really burned me up was the last horseman, damaged waltzed into the town and pillaged my treasury for 5 gold. I know, I know...it's no big deal -- it was the principle of the whole thing.

	09-12-2003 22:21									#27
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Hmm, on the plus side:

I took out a fortified regular rifleman (flat ground, size <6 town) with a regular swordsman once.

I remember a war chariot of mine killing an attacking mounted warrior (my wc was on a forest, with 3 or 4 hp, and the MW was probably a regular).

I accidently attacked with the wrong unit once and killed a fortified regular spearman with an elite warrior (and generated a leader. Good Grog!).

I've taken out fortified infantry w/cavalry.

I flat out crushed Carthage once using a combo of horsemen and legionaries. It's not one battle, but an entire war of pretty good luck. Horsies led, knocking 1hp off of regular numidians, and the Legions finished. It worked like a charm.

In my second played-out-for-a-while Conquests game, my Iroquois archers/spears/cats and later swordsmen were able to conquer the Maya without losing to a Jav thrower until the final city. I killed at least 10 of them, maybe more.

On the bad side:

Lost a veteran Tank to a fortified musketman (flat land, town).

Lost a 9hp (1 elite +1 vet) sword army and a seperate elite swordsman to a regular spearman fortified on a hill (in a size1 town), taking a grand total of 1hp off him. That one REALLY pissed me off. This was pre-conquests, so no army bonus.

Had a vet galley take my elite battleship to 1hp (battleship attacking). Had it won, it would clearly be the craziest result I've ever gotten.

I lost a regular infantry, fortified in a city on flat terrain, to an attacking Keshik. Flawless victory for the Keshik, IIRC.

I lost a knight attacking a longbowman (flat terrain, unfortified) in a Conquests game a couple of days ago. I wasn't at all surprised. I'm pretty sure that's happened to me before.

Several times I've lost swordsmen attacking archers out in the open (on flat terrain, unfortified).

I've lost many Cavalry to Impi (I ****ing hate Impi).

-Arrian

Last edited by Arrian on 09-12-2003 at 22:29