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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
And Churchill wrote many scripts.... don't worry Verto, it's another pathetic attempt by the left.  |
Of course it is dear. You keep taking your medicine, and lighting the incense in front of your votive bust of Ronald the Modern Prometheus, successor to Oatmeal Man, Geraldus of the Ford.
Hilarious, were it not for the existence of the Churchill cult on the Reaganite right. Pity none of them had his ability with words, either in writing or oratory.
" I've occasionally called Cap my 'Disraeli'. But as I think of him and the service he's given the nation in the cause of freedom and peace, more than anyone else, it's Churchill who comes to mind."
Ronald Reagan on Caspar 'the Defensive' Weinberger's retirement.
It's difficult to know what is funniest about this- the ludicrous image of Weinberger (sorry, 'Sir' Caspar) as Disraeli, or that Ronbo actually bothered to find out who Disraeli was, what with all the pressures on his time as leader of the free world consulting astrologists and watching old Disney films, and not, repeat not, tinting his hair.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Or that your delusions are incorrect and Reagan was much more intelligent that you could have ever thought possible.
It seems you are also bitter that Reagan is acknowledged to have suburb oratory skills... 'Great Communicator' and all. I guess I don't blame those on the left for being so bitter about it . |
It would be nice to think you could mind read, because as I stated before, there's a job in a carny booth waiting for you.
I'm not bitter that Republican spin doctors managed to create a myth of a great communicator. Communicating what exactly? If someone manages to get across that 2 + 2 = 4 they're simply communicating the perfectly obvious. Perhaps your willingness to idolize the mediocre blinds you to his evident mediocrity. 'Suburb' oratory skills in fact unwittingly (Freudianly?) sums it up. Sound bites catered to feed seemingly meaningful aural pap to people in between advertisements for Bengay and Anusol- probably the right niche for the Thoughts of Chairman Ron.
It's nice you think of me as the Left, although now I see I've been demoted merely to 'on the left'; however my gripe on the oratory issue isn't politically motivated at heart- it's because I love the English language, spoken and written, and the idea that the flatulent huckster for American big business is somehow a modern Demosthenes or Cicero is ludicrous.
'I think of Cap as my Disraeli.' Yeah, sure you do Ronnie. So what does that make Ronnie? Queen Victoria? How ludicrous.
And no, I don't believe Reagan suddenly jumped in intelligence quotient points when he became Governor of California or President- all it meant was that from reciting second rate lines in B movies he went to regurgitating second rate lies in his own 'B Movie'- the scriptwriters just became better paid.
As I said before, and as Gil Scott Heron wrote, the American people wanted John Wayne, but what they ended up with was ersatz True Grit. Hollyweird.
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mrmitchell
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Molly, I think what Imran's looking for is a link saying O Holy Reagan spoke from script instead of his own words.
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Reagan was president for 8 years in what turned out to be the last gasp of the Cold War, was a great orator himself, and created........ so I can see why people consider him just as memorable as FDR.
At any rate, your original post was about the failings of Reagan, not his successes. I was just pointing out that FDR had his fair share of failings as well. |
You forgot to mention what reagan created: what is reagan's legacy? Did he create any great program? or undo any great program or social practice? As for being in office for 8 years...so was Wilson, a man who most certainly deserves to be more on money than Reagan (he was on money once, but bills that large are no longer in circulation) As for the end of the cold war, one can give arguements, but no proof, plus the real end came under Bush senior. As for Great Orator, I doubt Reagan's most memorable speeches, being rather topical, will carry forward as leasons of anything.
You can make great arguements for many other men to be on money, president and not( why not MLK on money?) BUt to attempt to place a man on coin beofre he is even dead? There the repug cult of personality has gone too far.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[
Ah the bias is shining through. Did I hit a nerve? If you just saw sound bites because it is more a condemnation of your intelligence . Have you listened to or read his speeches in Moscow State University, Berlin, 1st and 2nd inaugural... and if you do some digging, you'll see Reagan had a substantial role in writing those speeches, making more changes to the speechwriters text than Clinton (who did it a lot as well).
Are you asserting that Churchill is a modern Cicero? 
I prefer Reagan as a modern Burke, Madison, or FDR in terms of oratory skills. |
Can't quite see where I compare Churchill with Cicero or Demosthenes, but the Republican right certainly seem to see him in that light- after all they swarm to hang on to the man's literary and political coat tails, having singly failed to come up with anyone of the same abilities themselves. Not surprising given the choices they've made for president.
Yes, I've read Reagan's speeches, and really, they don't compare with good oratory. As for contributing to his scripts- well I should think so! How about actually writing all of them- oh, right, too busy watching his old films. Well, someone had to.
I should hope my bias is showing through- I don't much care for stale fare, and Reagan's collections of received ideas, platitudes and the baldly obvious are like badly photocopied Norman Rockwell prints.
More Anusol dear? Or would you like a vanilla sound bite, only a day old?
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shawnmmcc
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Drake, did Reagan create it, or did he become the symbol for it? Of course symbols often get more attention than the actual creator.
Modern conservatism, in the US, contains the seeds of it's own destruction. Tax cuts (starve the beast - neocon gospel) coupled to large budget deficits will eventually destroy our military. The large deficit/neocon strategy (please note "starve the beast" is their OWN WORDS for the strategy of large deficits/tax cuts that prevent new spending programs) will inevetably eliminate our ability to maintain our place as preeminent military power, something modern conservatives also believe in.
Whether it was Russian after the fall of the Soviet Union, Great Britian at the start of WW2 (they had no gold reserves - the US didn't believe it, and required them to prove it, it's why we swapped bases for old destroyers), the USA after the Civil War, the examples are innumerable. Trust me, if the neocon "starve the beast" deficits aren't brought into line, then when the US economy tanks, our military won't be far behind.
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MrFun
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of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:32
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Some of you guys' slobbering over Reagan is somewhat amusing.
Last edited by MrFun on 10-12-2003 at 20:09
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09-12-2003 03:46
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@ molly bloom
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