22-04-2001 00:07									#1
	Would this be a good idea for a scenario? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I was thinking this idea over in my head the other day. Almost all the scenarios out there are about conquest, some maybe about defending your civilization, and others the quest type scenarios. Very few have been about building your civilization and micromanagement, and even the ones that are end up having you conquer the world.

My scenario would be about the Hungarian Age of Conquest. The goal would be to establish a nation-state that would survive the test of time. It would last from about 800AD-1000AD (maybe 1100AD). You would start off with many settler type units and cavalry units in "Magna Hungaria", which is our ancient homeland east of the Volga. Your first task would be to immigrate to the Carpathian Basin by traveling across Russia and the Ukraine. The Pechings (probably barbarian units) would be attacking Magna Hungaria relatively early off in the game so you'd have to waste no time in moving. You'd start off with the Szekely cities in Northern Transylvania (since they've been there since the 5th century). The rest of the Hungarian cities you'd have to "settle". By settle I do not mean using your settler units to build. The Barbarians will control the important cities such as Buda and Pozsony, and their pop will probably be around 2 or 3, so they don't disappear when you take them. You would use your settlers to settle the cities (if you press 'b' on a settler inside a city its pop will increase by 1). And thats how the migration would be simulated. I would choose to do it like this instead of using your starting settlers to build cities, lest important cities be placed in wrong locations out of historical ignorance and the later events would be messed up.

From there you go into your Age of Conquest. You send out your horseman to raid the Holy Roman Empire. It would be conquest, but more raiding party type battles (since thats what they did). Cities would be heavily fortified to make sure you don't conquere them. Instead, there will be several small village units that you 'raid' (by destroying) and you get plunder, i.e. money and technologies, but more in money. This would give you a boost and allow you to start building your infrastructure.

Eventually, Otto I will arise as Emperor and challenge your people. You will not get any more plunder out of raids unless you defeat him at Augsburg. If you don't challenge him there, he will invade your country. Most likely you will lose, but it is better to lose on foreign soil than your homeland.

The ultimate goal would be able to reach a certain technology, probably would be christianity. That would symbolize the transformation of pagan wanderers into a christian kingdom that would endure for centuries. This the great achievement of Stephen I, the first Hungarian King. For he didn't want his people to disapear like his predecessors, the Scythians and Huns, did.

If this goal is not met by a certain time, say around 1100 or 1200 AD, events would create masses of enemies, prehaps Byzantines, Germans, or Mongols, that would overrun your country and sent your nation to ultimate death.

Of course this scenario would be in ToT because I would need the event space, and the use of flags. Can anyone offer their opinion on what I've presented so far?

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"The Rumanians are really the most reliable people in the world when it comes to depending upon their breaking any promises they make." - General Harry Hill Bandholtz, US Army, 22 NOV 1919. General Bandholtz was the one who saved the Crown Jewels from the Rumanians. His statue sits in front of the American Embassy in Budapest.
Truth
[This message has been edited by MagyarCrusader (edited April 21, 2001).]

	22-04-2001 00:21									#2
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The link in your sig seems to be dead...

...idea sounds nice...good luck MJ

	22-04-2001 00:47									#4
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MagyarCrusader, I think any scenario is worth working on. I say go for it. It'd be very unique and interesting, in my opinion.

About scenarios being about conquest, The Mars Project is about colonization, maintenance, and upkeep, with a side dish of some battles later on.

My hidden "French Rejuvination" scenario that I've been working on off and on is about you being one of the European powers after the Napoleonic Wars, and building your nation up if it was damaged by the wars, and then embarking yourself into the mid-1800s to late 1800s. Thus, about 1/4 of the scenario is building up your nation from the ruins of the Napoleonic Wars and then leading it to glory (France will be the best to play, as it would be more challenging).

Good luck.

	22-04-2001 01:45									#5
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I also think it's an excellent premise for a scenario. And I am sure you will do a beautiful job. But I would like to ask you to reconsider the platform. There is no space limit for events under FW anymore, you know that. About the flags... I do not know exactly what they are, but I'm sure you'd find a way to get around that. You know a lot of this stuff don't you?

On another topic, I remember long time ago (I have a very good memory) when someone just released a scenario called Danube Empire who "promised" that would be his first and last scenario about Hungarian history cos he did not want to be 'another Jesús Balsinde' (j/k). Remember that? Most definitely those were the days...

	22-04-2001 16:38									#6
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I love medieval scenarios, therefore I like that scenario idea very much, especially the "transition" into christianity as an important point.

How can you implement that? I have ToT, but I don´t know much about it´s new commands for events. Is it possible there to create events (the masses of enemies) if a Tech is NOT achieved?

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	22-04-2001 19:37									#7
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Original idea MJ but why only ToT? You could do both, one in FW then convert it to ToT and refine it. SO that this scenario can ahve a wider range of fans.

	23-04-2001 00:13									#8
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Thank you everyone for your enthusiasm. I'm just speculating right now. I have 2 other scenarios that need to be released first before I did much with this.

Mao- Thanks for pointing that out, although it isn't very important. I but it there in hopes that one day Victor Galis would click on it.

Polaris- I disagree. There are many scenarios NOT worth working on. Ever played Gambia? All of my recent scenarios (especially the ToT ones) take and incredible amount of time and I and people aren't interested then why make them? Your concept for the Mars project seems very similar to mine. Does your scenario have you start with 1 settlers (or city) and build your nation from that? Mine would be diffirent because you would actually start out with some cities but you have to immigrate across the map by disbanding cities into settlers and replanting them.

JB- Yes I know about the little trick of getting around limited events in FW, but that can be a major hassal. Just look at Marco's WW2 scenario! (You probably haven't but it has around 100 events files) Flags are a way to keep track of events that have already taken place, so you can alter them again. For example, I define a flag as 'on' and every turn that it is on the Aztecs get Jaguar Warriors from events. However, if Monteczuma is killed, the flag will be changed to 'off', and then the Aztecs will get no more Jaguar Warriors. As far as I know, you can't do that with FW unless you used a turn=-1 trigger, and disabled the building of Jaguars by changing the square they are created on into ocean, and that isn't too professional to me. Of course that is just the basics of it. It can get more complex where I think FW would have no chance of competing. (read my response to BeBro below).

BeBro- This is how it would be done. I would have a flag that starts in the 'off' position. To change it to the 'on' position, it would be something like researching Christianity, or building wonders, or doing both with the @AND option. Once you do that, the flag would be changed to the 'on' position. Once you have done this I would also use the events to declare your victory and end the game. However, if you do not do this by a certain turn, say turn 200, thats when you will be invaded. The trigger will be @flag = off @and @turn = 200. Then a text would pop up and say something to the extend of everyone forms an alliance against you and decides to destroy you. The other action would be to give a tech, say 'invasion', to one of the AI civs. The next events would be the @if received technology tech=invasion. And the action would be created unit, and using the randomize modifier and the count ability, I could create as many troops as I want to circle your kingdom, and with the goto command they would march straight to Buda. At this point I could give the AI 10 troops, per turn, 100 troops per turn, basically any number I feel, as long as its not overkill. I hope I didn't confuse anyone with that.

VietMinh- There are enough people with ToT to make using ToT for scenarios worthwhile. To me, using FW is a serious step backwards. It'd be like using CiC instead of FW a few years ago, because not enough people had FW. But you can do so much more with the new options, why not take advantage of it?

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"The Rumanians are really the most reliable people in the world when it comes to depending upon their breaking any promises they make." - General Harry Hill Bandholtz, US Army, 22 NOV 1919. General Bandholtz was the one who saved the Crown Jewels from the Rumanians. His statue sits in front of the American Embassy in Budapest.
Truth

	23-04-2001 01:08									#9
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Allow me to rephrase that: I think that any scenario with an interesting idea and an enthusiastic nature from the author is worth working on.

I wasn't really comparing The Mars Project to this, just saying that any idea is possible and that you should go for it.

Good luck.

	25-04-2001 00:34									#10
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I think this is a good idea and as this is for ToT, so much the better. I look forward to playing it. Go for it!

	25-04-2001 01:37									#11
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Well said MagyarCrusader. Frankly, I can not understand why anyone would stick with FW when ToT offers so much more.

JB, could you enlighten me?

	25-04-2001 18:23									#13
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Too cumbersome. Learning curve too steep for most people. Benefits do not offset these shortcomings. Else, why do you think ToT has not caught on most people?

However I must admit that MJ has made some valid points.

	26-04-2001 02:22									#14
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I was thinking of getting ToT. When my FW CD got lost, I went to buy some version of Civ II, there were both ToT and MGE there. First I saw ToT. I looked at the graphics, and thought "Wait! That isn't right!" and then I saw the extended game and thought "Cool, but I wouldn't play it that often". Then I looked at the price. Good ol' Civ2 MGE was $25(US), but ToT was around $50. Paying double for solely the scenario benefit didn't seem like a good idea.

Maybe I was wrong, but I like my normal Civ 2!

	26-04-2001 02:37									#15
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Yes the gfx (esp. the terrains) in ToT are crap. But you can change them all (first thing I did ), and 100kb for events sound really good. I think about making the next historic scn for ToT, but I´ll finish that little scifi thing first, which is still for FW/MGE.

MJ, thanks for the events info. Would you say that you need a lot more time for building a ToT scn than for FW/MGE?
I mean, if Civ3 comes soon (release at the end of the year?), and has good scn options...


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