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flipside
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for Sean Marcelo
Jun 2003
time: 05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by LDiCesare I am afraid Scottish rugby is in bad shape, on both sports and money sides, because their teams don't seem to carry much identity, the way Irish provinces or Welsh/French/English clubs do. |
In my opinion, one of the main reasons for this is the artificial change to a province structure in both Scotland and Wales.Here in Ireland we use that structure for all of our sports and so it only really strengthend what we already felt, whereas in both Wales and Scotland people tended to associate with their clubs rather than a 'fictional' regional team.
The two powerhouses, both economically and rugby-wise, England and France, have stuck to their traditional structure.
EDIT: Except football.For the obvious reason that it is a heathen game that up to the 1970's would see you banned FOR LIFE from any Irish sport.
Last edited by flipside on 01-01-2004 at 05:28
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flipside
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for Sean Marcelo
Jun 2003
time: 05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
But weren't the switch to franchises brought about by economic necessity? A case of modern rugby's "professionalism" - which is to say, the increasing cost of competing - putting potentially fatal pressure on an already creaky structure? |
Umm, three different answers to this.
Welsh-Yes, by their own financial mismanagement and their love of the NZ structure.The fact remains though that, other than NZ, Wales is about the only place where Rugby is the national game.They have lost this sense of identity.
Ire-Nup, It made sense to do it here as it was what has always been done in ALL sports, including rugby, for as long as anyone can remember.It merely formalised what everyone already felt.
Scotland-A bastard hybrid moulded to fit into some kind of Celtic league fantasy, whereas, in reality there are only small regions of Scotland that play Rugby.
Scotland and Wales have always been club based and with correct management would have remained so.
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by flipside
Umm, three different answers to this.
Welsh-Yes, by their own financial mismanagement and their love of the NZ structure.The fact remains though that, other than NZ, Wales is about the only place where Rugby is the national game.They have lost this sense of identity.
Ire-Nup, It made sense to do it here as it was what has always been done in ALL sports, including rugby, for as long as anyone can remember.It merely formalised what everyone already felt.
Scotland-A bastard hybrid moulded to fit into some kind of Celtic league fantasy, whereas, in reality there are only small regions of Scotland that play Rugby.
Scotland and Wales have always been club based and with correct management would have remained so. |
Yes, I see. As it happens, I was talking more about Scotland and Wales than Ireland.
Presumably rugby's competition in Scotland is s*****? England, with its big player base, along with some solid admin, obviously copes against the competition. It's a real pity about Wales.
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flipside
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for Sean Marcelo
Jun 2003
time: 05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Yes, I see. As it happens, I was talking more about Scotland and Wales than Ireland.
Presumably rugby's competition in Scotland is s*****? England, with its big player base, along with some solid admin, obviously copes against the competition. It's a real pity about Wales. |
Mainly Rugby is played in the borders and Edinborough in Scotland. It was always based on local communities identifying with their local clubs like Hawick (Bill McLaren's home town).
It is a pity about Wales at the moment, but there is hope in that there is an underlying love for the game and innate flair that will hopefully survive the currrent problems.
The funniest thing was when the Welsh clubs knew they would all go bust and still barely voted to adopt a regional format because of self interest as to which clubs would merge.
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:32
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quote:
Scotland-A bastard hybrid moulded to fit into some kind of Celtic league fantasy, whereas, in reality there are only small regions of Scotland that play Rugby. |
Indeed. I read and heard several comments by Scots stating that this system was bad because there was no way theu could support a team whose identity was so dubious. Ireland's provinces on the other side have been in existence for about 2 thousand years, so it's clearly more natural there. I have a nice tie with the symbol of the Irish Colleges Rugby Union on it, and it sports a circle with the four provinces emblems on it. This is only between 10 and 12 years old but shows the provinces existed and were recognized at national level for a long time.
As for Wales, I hope they'll be able to organize themselves. There is strong support for the sport in that country, and their performance in the world cup must have stirred it again, much more than their results in the last tournament. There's still hope that they'll rise from teh dead.
Oh, and, yes, happy new year.
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flipside
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for Sean Marcelo
Jun 2003
time: 05:32
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
The only journalists with whom I'm acquainted know how to drink and that's the extent of their knowledge. |
A hard knowledge to obtain and one worthy of further research, although not by me, I have given up for this year .
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Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
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31-12-2003 06:52
Sounds a bit like Havak's team are adopting the French policy these days! 
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