07-12-2003 09:44									#1
	Is the SoZ too darn good? Get a bigger avatar today!

In games where I've managed to get the Statue of Zeus, it's basically allowed me to dominate the Ancient and Mediaeval eras militarily without 'wasting' lots of time building a large non-Ancient-Cavalry force. With 3/2/2 and an extra hit point, they're not far behind a knight, and the best defensive units in the early game are defence 2!

Combined with the random element of 'who gets Ivory' and the cheap cost it's been a gamebreaker when I've got it (and led me to lose one game where an aggressive neighbour got it.)

Overall I think it should have been left in the Mesopotamia scenario - or at least made less powerful (3/2/2 is already better than any unit in the game at the time, extra hit point makes them ridiculous IMHO.)

	07-12-2003 10:07									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It is a real bomb. I sure hated to see them coming my way. If you do not have Ivory and someone on your landmass does, it is no fun at all.

	07-12-2003 10:53									#3
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yup, a heck of a wonder to possess. Pray for ivory, or pray that ivory is far from you.

	07-12-2003 15:42									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I've not found it as powerful as I was expecting it to be in the MP games I've played. Of course, whenever I see ivory I rush all out to get it, as does everyone else.

They certainly are a pain to deal with, but only as a part of a larger force. You can't mount regular offensive wars using only ancient cav. Given the increased scarcity of resources, this is a good addition.

	07-12-2003 19:58									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I agree the SoZ is a great addition to the game. Sure it is unpleasant to be on the receiving end of an attack by hordes of ancient cavalry, but that does not mean it should be removed. Gameplay balance has not been affected. If you have ivory but no iron but a SoZ at least you have a chance of surviving.

	07-12-2003 20:51									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

True, but if your neighbor has ivory and you DON'T have iron ... LOOK OUT! I really try to pull the diplomatic alliances in if possible.

	08-12-2003 03:36									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Knights Templar seems evenly balanced, but agreed SoZ seems over the top.

	08-12-2003 06:38									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Just try an army or two of them - A 15-18 hp 4/3/3 blitzing pillaging army takes Spear-defended cities at the rate of:

Turn 1 - take out three defenders and take city
Turn 2 - skip turn to heal
Turn 3 - move to next city
Turn 4 - return to Turn 1....

Empires truly crumble.....

	08-12-2003 07:54									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by spy14 Knights Templar seems evenly balanced, but agreed SoZ seems over the top.

I like the Knights Templar but have yet to have any luck with them in battle.

I must be cursed because they routinely get defeated by defeding pikemen. Must just be bad luck but I've built this wonder in 3 games now and they haven't produced any results for me.

	08-12-2003 20:06									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

I think SoZ is a fun, well-balanced Wonder. It's certainly not overpowered - you only get one of these little terrors every 5 turns! If you're building a stack of just Ancient Cavalry, you're going to be waiting a while. As far as putting them into an army and blitzing your way thru city after city, have you ever tried this? First, you have to have an army (no small feat this early in the game). Secondly, blitzing this army thru 3 spears is not quite as easy as it sounds, IMO. Run some tests and see.

I've built (and have seen others build) SoZ quite a few times now, and I have to say that I have yet to see it single-handedly dominate a game. It's nice to have, but isn't going to make or break you.

	08-12-2003 21:55									#11
	Remove this text

I would tend to agree that it is not going to give you the game by itself. It will give you the game though. Most likely you were already one of the strongest civs and now you have the equivilent of a core city in terms of troop production. It will create 5 HP units out of the gate (you did build a barracks right).
If you get them into an army and hit a city with three spears, they will usually get toasted. If things don't go well, you kill 2 and let someone else finish the job. Two turns later the army is ready to go again.
It is very powerful in the humans hands.

	09-12-2003 01:13									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

The SoZ is too powerful. The number of turns between ancient cavalry should probably be increased from 5 to say 7. That would help IMO.