08-12-2003 03:54									#1
	The 4 rules of Wonder addiction Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Let me start by saying that I DO build wonders, and I think they are a wonderful part of this game. They create variety and lead to a myriad of different strategies. Having said that, had I not been a victim of ‘wonder fixation’ as a newbie I would have become a better player FAR faster. My learning curve to Monarch would have been reduced by months – my first Deity victory would not have taken over a dozen failed attempts.

New and inexperienced players (chieftain to regent) make certain common errors. High among these is “Wonder Fixation”. I too was not exempt from this common newbie mistake. In my chieftain/warlord stage I would feel angry and cheated if I didn’t pull the Pyramids or Great Library. My second city was ALWAYS a wonder city. Even in my warmonger games I would set aside 2 core cities to try and ‘hog’ the wonders. This habit has a negative 3-fold effect:

Firstly, new players struggle with worker management, happiness, military tactics, and quick city expansion. Wonder building significantly detracts from a player’s ability to master these areas. Consequently, this will lengthen the time it will take for a player to advance in level. For a new player - the time, effort, and shields it takes to build an Ancient Age wonder will never make up for the benefits of having used those 400 shields to build workers/settlers/troops. In the Ancient Age each and every city is VITAL.

Secondly, there is a ‘crutch’ effect to certain wonders that hampers your mastering the nuances of the game. Having trouble keeping up in tech? Ah, I’ll shoot for the Great Library – every time. Do your cities take too long to grow? Ah, I’ll shoot for the Pyramids – every time. Are your people are always rioting and unhappy? Ah, I’ll shoot for Artemis or Hanging Gardens – every time. There’s just one problem here, the moment you go up in difficulty level, the strategy doesn’t work – and now your skill level is too underdeveloped to compete at the new higher level.

Lastly, certain CIV traits lend themselves better to building certain wonders. So once you have picked your ‘must have’ wonder(s), you find yourself picking the same 2 or 3 CIVs – every time. You convince yourself that they are the ‘best’ CIVs. But you have now cheated yourself out of 90% of the fun of playing this game. The game will bog down to - same old, same old.

My advice is simple: do not build a single wonder until you have mastered Regent level. Do this, and you will have your first Deity victory in a fraction of the time it took me.

Now it’s time for Ision to do a reality check. If 100 newbies read this post I would be surprised if even 1 were to actually take the advice. The appeal of Wonders to a new player is simply too strong. There’s something psychologically comforting about seeing that pop up window with a wonder that is ‘yours and yours alone’! That city screen just looks SO much better with that big fat building staring back at you. You just have to do it – you can’t help it – wonders are the heroin fix of all new CIVers. So if I can’t get you off the addiction the best I can do is offer a little methadone treatment.

Okay, here goes: the 4 rules of newbie wonder addiction –

1. The Great Library is OFF limits. Never, absolutely never build this wonder - not even with a SGL! The single biggest wonder crutch of CIV - is this wonder. Your skills at tech research, tech trading, diplomacy, and the use of the luxury slider will be TREMENDOUSLY hampered. This single wonder delayed my Regent to Monarch transition by months.

2. Limit your wonder building cities to just 1. This will hurt your soul. Later in the game you will want to scream! Because, you will have numerous core cities that could also be building wonders - and with a good shot at getting them. Don’t do it! Keep that heroin down to one shot (city) per Epic game. Hard to do – but doable.

3. Every time you start up a new game of CIV – purposely choose a different Ancient Age wonder to shoot for. This will help you avoid the, ‘this is the best CIV’ or ‘the best TRAITS’ crap. It also will help you avoid locking into certain strategies.

4. Lastly, repeat after me – THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BEST CIV OR BEST TRAIT. Get that in your head! Say it ten times daily – repeat it every time you stare at the list of CIVs to choose from. – Repeat it every game until you reach at least Monarch.

Well that’s it in a nutshell. Keep those wonders down in your learning stage and you will truly learn to properly appreciate them later.

Ision

Last edited by Ision on 08-12-2003 at 06:03

	08-12-2003 06:48									#2
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Interesting little item, Ision.

The symptom is certainly serious and real enough, but the cure may be just a little too severe.

It is not a defeat to miss all the Ancient and even all the Medieval Wonders - I miss most frequently, even in Regent! You should try and build wonders WHERE THEY WOULD BENEFIT YOU SUFFICIENTLY. The GL could be great if you decide you will be spending your efforts elsewhere (eg war), and there is enough time before you get Education that it will be worth several techs. The Lighthouse can return a huge profit if it enables you to be the first to contact other civs, especially in Conquests. The good ole SoZ can give you Horse units (and damn good ones!) if you don't get Horses. And by all means - if you get an SGL, use it on a wonder. Anything else is a waste.

The trick is learning where you can spare the effort for a wonder, and where 3-400 shields worth of military units who could CONQUER you some wonders are worth it instead.

	08-12-2003 06:54									#3
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quote: 4. Lastly, repeat after me – THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BEST CIV OR BEST TRAIT. Get that in your head! Say it ten times daily – repeat it every time you stare at the list of CIVs to choose from. – Repeat it every game until you reach at least Monarch.

This reminds me of something my APCS teacher told us all to repeat constantly - 2^10 is 1024

	08-12-2003 06:58									#4
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Ision

quote: You should try and build wonders WHERE THEY WOULD BENEFIT YOU SUFFICIENTLY. The GL could be great if you decide you will be spending your efforts elsewhere (eg war),

MrWhereItsAt ,

I think you misunderstood the point to the post. It is not a knock/attack on wonders, it is about how over emphasis on wonders, or reliance on wonders, hinder a players skill development. My entire point is for players to learn to play withOUT that wonder bonus, so as to increase their skill level and lower their 'crutch' dependancy if things go wrong in the game.

Simply stated: you will get better - faster- if you learn to play without them.

Ision

	08-12-2003 07:51									#5
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I have another way for people to get over wonder-fixation...play Apolyton University course 209 in the strategy forum. The theme of the game is no golden age, meaning you don't get to use your UU at all, and you have to be very careful about which wonders you build and even capture (you can capture several as long as you don't build one afterward that would complete the golden age). My take on the game was to not build a single wonder throughout the game and I won fairly handily at emperor level (spaceship victory because I was so far ahead and didn't feel like a conquest or domination win, though my economy was so far advanced I could have done either one).

Before that game I went through wonder fixation, though it was starting to wane...but because of that game I realized that you can win on a high level without wonders, without a golden age, and without cavalry.

	08-12-2003 21:04									#6
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Once you have learned to play without GWs... getting them becomes easier.

"There is no GW."

	10-12-2003 03:44									#7
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true Theseus,

not only easier - but far more productive. Getting the most out of a wonder is also about having learned how to get the most out of your CIVs cities.

Sun Tzu's to a newbie is just a ,"wow i got free barracks - one less thing to do....", to an expierenced warmonger it has the sound of, "maybe i can beat my all time record for conquest win" -

a different mind set - lol

Ision

	10-12-2003 03:46									#8
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quote: There is no GW."

	10-12-2003 16:08									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Ision Ision MrWhereItsAt , I think you misunderstood the point to the post. It is not a knock/attack on wonders, it is about how over emphasis on wonders, or reliance on wonders, hinder a players skill development. My entire point is for players to learn to play withOUT that wonder bonus, so as to increase their skill level and lower their 'crutch' dependancy if things go wrong in the game. Simply stated: you will get better - faster- if you learn to play without them. Ision

No no, I realise this, it just could have seemed that you were discouraging wonder building at ALL. Although a great tactic if you can manage it, perhaps a bit on the steep side of the learning curve. I just wanted to add to your great post that Wonders should be seen for what they are: a great bonus in the right situation, but it is folly to rely on them totally if there are other (and usually better) alternatives.

	10-12-2003 16:17									#10
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It took me a long time to kick my pyramid addiction and those brutes are damn difficult to snort.

I now rarely bother trying to build any wonders before the medieval age and even then tailor my choices to my traits and the situation.

Unfortunately with the introduction of SGL in C3C I can feel a relapse coming on, must resist the urge to only play as a scientific civs...

	12-12-2003 00:59									#11
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I ordered C3C and immediately fired up a game on Monarch level. I hadn't played CivIII for maybe a year. After 50 hours of gameplay I won in the Space Race. It was a very interesting game. I didnt even have the highest score. It was a huge map with 16 civs and and I was the Arabs on a continent map. Basically in my game I did not build any wonders till the modern age. Ive been trying to start up a new game now with the only changes being the Civilization that I am playing, the Indians, and I am getting raped. For some reason I can't find the same success I did in that first game. I think the expansionist Civ trait may help out tremendously. Right now I am playing on Regent and I am only doing ok. Well I am in the Middle Ages so I still have along ways to go, but several AI's are ahead of me. One thing I have found in the game is that it isnt very hard to catch up as long as your not to far behind. The best thing to do is to take advantage of the weaker civs who sometimes get techs and have money you may not have.

	12-12-2003 01:22									#12
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My addiction remains firmly in place, but that's all part 'n parcel of the Search for Ultimate Power (tm).

What you say is true, though. And I have played some games where I've missed major wonders that I'm used to getting, and managed to win handily anyway, so I know my addiction has nothing to do with winning the game. It's an aesthetic thing.

-Arrian

	12-12-2003 02:09									#13
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Interesting. For me it seems it was a bit of the opposite – when I started playing there were very few wonders the AI didn’t beat me to (it took more than a few games until I got a better grasp on what I was doing to get wonders).

At this point there is no wonder I particularly need, but plenty that will give me aggro if I don’t get them. Zeus is currently at the top of that list. What makes it worse is, as this is resource dependent wonder, if I don’t have ivory right off the bat there is not a thing in the world I can do about it.

	12-12-2003 03:37									#14
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I managed to trade for Ivory once and use a prebuild to get Zeus.
So you can do something, but only if you have contact with a civ that has extra ivory and will make a deal.

	12-12-2003 04:56									#15
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True, the Great Library speeds up all victory types excepting cultural. In emperor I have at times built it just so that someone else doesn't get it. Still, when I tried deity I quit all four times after having missed or having realized that I would miss the Great Library (loser)! I couldnt handle the thought of no GLib because I was lagging a bit more than usual while in emperor.
I returned to emperor and tried all other untried civs (still go to test Babs) but the GLib still makes everything easy and a bit boring, even when I start near tundra or bordered by jungle. Thinking about it this very morning, I realized - it's true! - wonder fixation can be a limiting attitude.
I also have to agree with the comments on civ fixation ... I think it a bit funny when people say that such and such are the best or when certain other civs get dissed. When I started playing with the aztecs I didnt want to switch because I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to play well but the true reason is that I didn't know how to properly exploit civ's characteristics and the game mechanics in general. I proceeded with Romans which share a mili trait and also have commercial - I concluded that they wer better. Slowly I tried others and realized any civ can kick butt - I think it's a matter of working at using your civ's qualities properly within the context of the map type you are or suspect that you are playing.
Lastly, I think I also agree, all those turns building or prebuilding a wonder can be used to - let's say - building more towns - which means bigger armed forces - which means you don't get attacked or even threatened and so on; and that will be - I am now sure- the key to winning emperor without a GLib or most other wonders for that matter... and after that I won't feel like quitting a deity game.

	12-12-2003 05:45									#16
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I usually don't try to build a lot of wonders, even if I could. But at the difficulty levels I've been playing at, it has not even been an option anyway.

	12-12-2003 11:05									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Puma Slowly I tried others and realized any civ can kick butt...

You betcha.

Building on the original post's conception:

*Learn to kick butt with the civs you like the LEAST.

*Play some games with HORRIBLE starts.

*Play some of the AU games... no war, all war, no GA, etc.

Going a while back, check out Aeson's "So Very Cold" game... learn to squeeeeze Civ3 for all it's got.

Get out of your comfort zone... there are players out there, here at 'poly, at CFC, at RBC, who have shown that unbelievable wins can be accomplished.

Great friggin' game.