08-12-2003 07:11									#1
	coastal defense Remove this text

i've never used the spy against ships. attacking with spies appears to cut a units power in half. So two spies can put any ship deep into the red that's hanging along your coast. and at this point even a piston bomber can destroy a AEGIS or battleship.

and i got every one of my spies returned to the nearest city.

taking this step further... i placed spies onboard transports which can leave a port and attack ships within the transports range. the spies return to the nearest city so they are never lost.

it did make coastal defense a bunch easier.

	08-12-2003 12:52									#2
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hmm good tactic wil ltry that ...

	08-12-2003 14:57									#3
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Since noticing that the ability to use spies to sabotage enemy units was possible, I have hardly ever used it. I've used it when I only had one defender who was damaged and would have been unable to defeat a full-strength AI unit, but these occurences are few and far between. I'd be more tempted to just bribe a decent AI ship and then use that to destroy all of the others around it.
Can spies see subs? I can't remember using them for this, but it could be useful if you only have a transport and a BB to hand.

	08-12-2003 15:18									#4
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Yes, bringing the AI down to 50% or 25% striking force was one of SG(2)'s favourites -- don't recall using it on ships however ...

Stu

	08-12-2003 22:20									#5
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Doesn't stacked ships defeat this simple ploy?

	08-12-2003 22:38									#6
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yes, but against the AI there are always lots of single targets. its big plus is the cost. To re-use a spy this way is a lot cheaper than a cruise missile... which might not do any damge and may cause a happy problem in the city. BB ships don't seem so tough anymore.

and if you're in MP than stacking ships puts you at risk of having more than one ship sunk by my lucky lower class vessel. I've never liked how stacked ships suffer when one piss ass worthless boat gets lucky.

	09-12-2003 09:07									#7
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quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV I've never liked how stacked ships suffer when one piss ass worthless boat gets lucky.

* Hydey hopes the Aussies navy builds a piss ass boat that can sink 50 ships with one attack

	09-12-2003 15:37									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

First the Australian navy would have to design missiles that didn't come back once they'd been fired.

If the ships are stacked (as you said, very unlikely with the AI) then you'll just have to bribe one of these fantastic piss ass boats to take out the whole lot.
Or just nuke 'em!

	08-01-2004 02:21									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I use spies this way all the time -- helps soften the blows & decrease the corresponding counter damage -- also means that I don't need as much fleet hanging around as targets.

	08-01-2004 03:52									#10
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Don't ask me
My vet spies do that all the time, except against air units
(because the trick doesn't work against air units ).

	08-01-2004 15:10									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

MWHC, if one CM is going to cause you happiness problems you're probably overextended. Unless you mean loss of celebration growth rather than risk of disorder?

I guess one can fall to kamikazi Fighters or Stealth if desperate to avoid red faces. If he's got AEGIS in the stack it will be expensive, but the stack value may make the exchange worthwhile.

Did I read somewhere that the defense multiplier for AEGIS vs CM higher than AEGIS vs aircraft? D×5 instead of D×2?

	10-01-2004 11:26									#12
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it's D*4 for CM, I believe.

	13-01-2004 02:18									#13
	Put an end to popups!

In the Cfc GOTM 35, I sent a vet Aegis stacked with a Carrier (in a lame attempt to bring down the Babylonian capital AFTER the spaceship launch).

14 Spanish (thanks for the help guys) CMs later, steel settled to the bottom.

So yeah, D+2 looks to be a little too small.

	13-01-2004 04:37									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

On a related matter of coastal defence...

Obviously when a naval unit attacks a city with a coastal fortress the defender gets the defence bonus.
Similarly if a land unit attacks a city with walls the defender gets the defence bonus.
What happens when Marines attack from a transport?
Does the defender get the bonus from the City Walls or the Coastal Fortress? (or both??)

	13-01-2004 05:46									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Sparrowhawk What happens when Marines attack from a transport? Does the defender get the bonus from the City Walls or the Coastal Fortress? (or both??)

Bonus from the City Walls.

	14-01-2004 15:40									#16
	Full PM-box? Change here!

The best thing about using spies in this manner is that it can be done in peacetime w/o ill effects. You will occasionally lose one, however, which considering the spy can never kill the enemy ship should make you choosy about picking your targets.

quote: Did I read somewhere that the defense multiplier for AEGIS vs CM higher than AEGIS vs aircraft? D×5 instead of D×2?

+200% vs. air, +400% vs. missiles.

quote: What happens when Marines attack from a transport? Does the defender get the bonus from the City Walls or the Coastal Fortress? (or both??) quote: Bonus from the City Walls.

I disagree. My experience has shown it to be from coastal defences.

	14-01-2004 16:04									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Theben quote: Bonus from the City Walls. [/q] I disagree. My experience has shown it to be from coastal defences.

Perhaps it's either/or, perhaps both
Has anyone achieved conclusive testing ?

	15-01-2004 15:33									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

No testing (and I don't use marines very often), but shouldn't the standard text "Coastal fortress doubles defence!" (or whatever it says) pop up if the fortress takes the heat of the attack?

Carolus

	15-01-2004 23:37									#19
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Sometime long long ago somebody did test this and I'm pretty sure City Walls are effective against Marines, which only makes them that much more useless.

	16-01-2004 01:50									#20
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I have a printout from the GL that says marines will allways count as land units therefor only the city walls option applies.

Also another printout says AEGIS gets X3 vs airraft and X5 agains units with the "destroy after attack" flag.

	16-01-2004 04:23									#21
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Here is a snip from the current thread Info: Combat

* x2 on defense versus air (AEGIS): An AEGIS cruiser gains a x3 bonus when attacked by an air unit, x5 if the attacker is a missile (destroyed after attacking).
* Can make amphibious assaults (marines): The unit can attack from the sea (a ship). This does not count as shore bombardment (3.9). The attacking marine does not ignore city walls (3.4).

Since this thread is still on the front page, maybe there are other nuggets that folk would enjoy reading about. Much thought and testing went into developing this thread. If someone has different, tested results about AEGIS or marines, I feel confident that the Marquis would like to hear from you.

Monk

	18-01-2004 00:06									#22
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by gunkulator Sometime long long ago somebody did test this and I'm pretty sure City Walls are effective against Marines, which only makes them that much more useless.

Yep. They're good defenders, though, and I customized a unit (shock troops) that appears later in the game that can do amphibious assaults while ignoring all walls and coastal defenses.

Gatekeeper