08-12-2003 09:00									#1
	The real reason for Christmas. Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well, I created this thread for two reasons:

BenKenobi asked why I changed my avatar to what I have now.

I was also already thinking of creating this thread, for those who believe in Jesus Christ, to remind all of us the reason why we celebrate Christmas. As this month goes on, and we get closer to Christmas, let's remember Jesus Christ's birth into this world.



Yeah, I admit -- I'm a material man in a material world. I bought and sent out Christmas cards, plan to buy gifts for others, and am thinking about what I want for myself this Christmas.

But at the same time, I want to find ways to remind myself why we really celebrate Christmas. So, immediately after Thanksgiving, I bought myself a modest nativity set and set it up in my modest apartment as one way to remind the real spirit behind Christmas -- the joyous celebration of one of the greatest people who ever existed.

Another way I intend to remind myself, is by choosing the avatar that I have on display now.



The Star of Bethlehem was shining peacefully upon the manger in which laid the newborn, Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

Glory Hallelujah!! Jesus Christ was born!!


Doesn't matter if you belong to any religious denomination or not, but if you have faith in Jesus Christ, share whatever is inspiring to you, or any written gospel songs that is your favorite.

	08-12-2003 09:04									#2
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atheist, but always liked Hark the Herald Angels Sing and Gloria in Excelcius (sp?) Deo....

	08-12-2003 09:05									#3
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I generally don't do anything very religious at Christmas

I do read my bible (And most the time go to church), and I admit to being partial to christmas music (like The First Noel, and the like)

as far as nonchristmas hymn music I find Amazing Grace to be pretty decent

note that hymns are not the sort of thing that I like to listen to in everyday life

but sometimes they are just very appropriate

Jon Miller

	08-12-2003 09:10									#4
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Welcome to Utah, MrFun

	08-12-2003 09:12									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko Gloria in Excelcius (sp?) Deo....

that's gloria in excelsis deo. that's pretty much like saying 'i like that one song by that one guy, what was his name?' there have been sooooooo many arrangements of that song it's not even funny.

my favorite though is 'o magnum myseterium' or for the latin impaired 'oh, magnificient mystery' about the conception of christ. if only i could remember the composer...

	08-12-2003 09:14									#6
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Food, friends, and family. Jolly good times.

Happy Winter Festival!

	08-12-2003 09:28									#7
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There are some nice carrols that kids sing from house to house this time of year but i dont remember them accurately to translate them

i only remember the first verses, a crude translation would be:

Good evening, lords
if it is your dictation
The devine birth of Christ
that i relate to your royal (~household)

Christ is being born today
in the city of Bethleem
The heavens soul-open
Rejoice, whole of creation

In the caves He is being delivered
Inside the fatni (?) of horses (?)
the King of the heavens
and poet (maker) of all


Here where we've sung
Rock may never crack
And may the lord of the house
live many years (i suspect that was added to increase the tip, it's not on all versions)

etc etc

they are in more or less old greek, beautiful
the kids get tipped for singing. they ~traditionally hold an iron triangular when they sing which they hit with an iron stick (since it's more of an announcement so it has to have the bang factor) but they can also have other instruments like accordeons, flutes, I even saw one once with a portable synthesizer

here's a pop eye catechism school musically dressed version i could find with some of the lyrics but it's in the right key

http://www.yasou.com/mp3/kalanta/ka...ranarxontes.mp3

Last edited by Bereta_Eder on 08-12-2003 at 10:10

	08-12-2003 09:30									#8
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"I'd Never Do It On A Christmas Tree" - Rodney Dangerfield

seriously though. I adore christmas. I'm going to change my avatar briefly for the season. I'll be impressed if anyone will recognize where the image is from.

	08-12-2003 11:29									#9
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I'll post my favourite Christmas hymns when I get home.

	08-12-2003 11:32									#10
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Yay! Christmas! It's a shame that I live in heathen country that thinks the holiday is just for young lovers.

	08-12-2003 11:32									#11
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The college music group I'm in sang the Hallelujah Chorus from Handel's Messiah recently. I lost my voice for a week.

I like Christmas, I just think that the fellow in my avatar looks better as a Jew. You be the judge.

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	08-12-2003 11:34									#12
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I too like to go to Church and sing carols. We always sing at home as well. Two of my favorite carols are Adeste Fideles and Good King Wencelas.

To hear the song, click below
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/o/goodking.htm

Good King Wenceslas looked out,
On the Feast of Stephen,
When the snow lay round about,
Deep and crisp and even;
Brightly shone the moon that night,
Tho' the frost was cruel,
When a poor man came in sight,
Gath'ring winter fuel.

"Hither, page, and stand by me,
If thou know'st it, telling,
Yonder peasant, who is he?
Where and what his dwelling?"
"Sire, he lives a good league hence,
Underneath the mountain;
Right against the forest fence,
By Saint Agnes' fountain."

"Bring me flesh, and bring me wine,
Bring me pine logs hither:
Thou and I will see him dine,
When we bear them thither."
Page and monarch, forth they went,
Forth they went together;
Thro' the rude wind's wild lament
And the bitter weather.

"Sire, the night is darker now,
And the wind blows stronger;
Fails my heart, I know not how,
I can go no longer."
Mark my footsteps, good my page;
Tread thou in them boldly:
Thou shalt find the winter's rage
Freeze thy blood less coldly."

In his master's steps he trod,
Where the snow lay dinted;
Heat was in the very sod
Which the saint had printed.
Therefore, Christian men, be sure,
Wealth or rank possessing,
Ye who now will bless the poor,
Shall yourselves find blessing.

Adeste Fideles
http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/o/c/ocomeayf.htm
Anonymous, 17th Century

Adeste Fideles laeti triumphantes;
Venite, venite in Bethlehem;
Natum videte regem angelorum:
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus, dominum!

2. Deum de Deo, lumen de lumine,
Gestant puellae viscera,
Deum verum, genitum non factum.
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus, dominum!

3. En, grege relicto, humiles ad cunas,
Vocati pastores approperant;
Et nos ovanti gradu festinemus.
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus, dominum!

4. Aeterni parentis splendorem aeternum,
Velatum sub carne videbimus;
Deum infamtem pannis involutem.
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus, dominum!

5. Pro nobis erenum et foeno cubantem,
Piis foveamus amplexibus.
Sic nos amantem quis non redamaert?
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus, dominum!

6. Cantet nunc io chorus angelorum,
Cantet nunc aula caelestium,
Gloria, gloria in excelsis Deo!!!
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus, dominum!

7. Ergo qui natus die hodierna
Iesu tibi sit gloria
Patris aeterni verbum caro factum.
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus,
Venite, adoremus, dominum

	08-12-2003 12:01									#13
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Amazing Grace words by John Newton

quote: This is prob­ab­ly the most pop­u­lar hymn in the Eng­lish lan­guage—a tel­e­vi­sion doc­u­ment­ary was ev­en made about it. Per­haps it is be­cause its words so well de­scribe the au­thor: John New­ton was a slave trad­er be­fore com­ing to Christ. *

*Historically, Newton continued to trade slaves long after "coming to Christ". His concern was with the spiritual well being of his fellow sailors, not his "human" cargo. (Another myth for the season shot to heck.)
Lovely song, though.

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.

’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, Who called me here below,
Shall be forever mine.

When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we’d first begun.


Jerusalem : words W. Blake (from Milton)
music C H H Parry

And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England’s mountains green?
And was the Holy Lamb of God
On England’s pleasant pastures seen?
And did the countenance divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!
I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England’s green and pleasant land.

	08-12-2003 12:57									#14
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Sparky:

You just had to slag the writer.

Cyberhymnal is an excellent website - you can even hear some the the hymns on the site.

My favourite to sing has to be Go tell it on the mountain.

Refrain:
Go, tell it on the mountain,
Over the hills and everywhere
Go, tell it on the mountain,
That Jesus Christ is born.

While shepherds kept their watching
Over silent flocks by night
Behold throughout the heavens
There shone a holy light.

Refrain

The shepherds feared and trembled,
When lo! above the earth,
Rang out the angels chorus
That hailed the Savior’s birth.

Refrain

Down in a lowly manger
The humble Christ was born
And God sent us salvation
That blessèd Christmas morn.

Refrain

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/g/o/gotitotm.htm

	08-12-2003 13:02									#15
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I have a soft spot for the Gloria:

Les anges dans nos campagnes
Ont entonné l’hymne des cieux;
Et l’écho de nos montagnes
Redit ce chant mélodieux.
Gloria, in excelsis Deo,
Gloria, in excelsis Deo.

Bergers, pour qui cette fête?
Quel est l’objet de tous ces chant?
Quel vainqueur, quelle conquête
Mérite ces cris triomphants?
Gloria, in excelsis Deo,
Gloria, in excelsis Deo.

Ils annoncent la naissance
Du Libérateur d’Israël,
Et pleins de reconnaissance
Chantent en ce jour solennel.
Gloria, in excelsis Deo,
Gloria, in excelsis Deo.

Bergers, loin de vos retraites
Unissez-vous à leurs concerts
Et que vos tendres musettes
Fassent retentir dans les airs:
Gloria, in excelsis Deo,
Gloria, in excelsis Deo.

Cherchons tous l’heureux village
Qui l’a vu naître sous ses toits,
Offrons-Lui le tendre hommage
Et de nos coeurs et nos voix!
Gloria, in excelsis Deo,
Gloria, in excelsis Deo.

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/non/fr/ladansnc.htm

	08-12-2003 13:17									#16
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Funny how so many of the most famous hymns come from other languages.

Might as well appease the Germans as well as the French.


Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht!
Alles schläft, einsam wacht
Nur das traute hochheilige Paar,
Holder Knabe mit lockigem Haar,
Schlaf in himmlischer Ruh,
Schlaf in himmlischer Ruh.

Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht!
Gottes Sohn, o wie lacht
Lieb’ aus deinem holdseligen Mund,
Da uns schlägt die rettende Stund’,
Christ, in deiner Geburt,
Christ, in deiner Geburt!

Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht!
Die der Welt Heil gebracht,
Aus des Himmels goldenen Höhn,
Uns der Gnaden Fülle läßt sehn,
Jesum in Menschengestalt,
Jesum in Menschengestalt!

Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht!
Wo sich heut alle Macht
Väterlicher Liebe ergoß,
Und als Bruder huldvoll umschloß
Jesus die Völker der Welt,
Jesus die Völker der Welt!

Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht!
Lange schon uns bedacht,
Als der Herr vom Grimme befreit
In der Väter urgrauer Zeit
Aller Welt Schonung verhieß,
Aller Welt Schonung verhieß!

Stille Nacht, heilige Nacht!
Hirten erst kund gemacht;
Durch der Engel Halleluja
Tönt es laut von fern und nah’;
Christ der Retter ist da,
Christ der Retter ist da!

http://www.cyberhymnal.org/htm/s/i/silntnit.htm

	08-12-2003 16:19									#17
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quote: Originally posted by self biased that's gloria in excelsis deo. that's pretty much like saying 'i like that one song by that one guy, what was his name?' there have been sooooooo many arrangements of that song it's not even funny.

Ya but they only ever had one version at the Church I used to show up for only on Christmases (made family happy, and I love Christmas carols and the looks I got when I stayed seated while everyone else went to the front for Communion

	08-12-2003 16:34									#18
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Communists.

	08-12-2003 18:26									#19
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For anyone who wants to share their thoughts on this, is there anything about celebrating Jesus Christ's birth that you find inspiring?

	08-12-2003 19:29									#20
	Re: The real reason for Christmas. Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by MrFun Well, I created this thread for two reasons: BenKenobi asked why I changed my avatar to what I have now. I was also already thinking of creating this thread, for those who believe in Jesus Christ, to remind all of us the reason why we celebrate Christmas. As this month goes on, and we get closer to Christmas, let's remember Jesus Christ's birth into this world. Yeah, I admit -- I'm a material man in a material world. I bought and sent out Christmas cards, plan to buy gifts for others, and am thinking about what I want for myself this Christmas. But at the same time, I want to find ways to remind myself why we really celebrate Christmas. So, immediately after Thanksgiving, I bought myself a modest nativity set and set it up in my modest apartment as one way to remind the real spirit behind Christmas -- the joyous celebration of one of the greatest people who ever existed. Another way I intend to remind myself, is by choosing the avatar that I have on display now. The Star of Bethlehem was shining peacefully upon the manger in which laid the newborn, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Glory Hallelujah!! Jesus Christ was born!! Doesn't matter if you belong to any religious denomination or not, but if you have faith in Jesus Christ, share whatever is inspiring to you, or any written gospel songs that is your favorite.

Ok, this isn't going to cut it.
No way are we supposed to agree on something.
Sorry, you'll have to become an Atheist.

	08-12-2003 19:52									#21
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I thought Winter Solstice was the real reason. Well not for Christmas obviously, but for having a celebration in December in the first place.

	08-12-2003 19:54									#22
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I've always enjoyed Good King Wenceslas

	08-12-2003 21:46									#23
	Re: Re: The real reason for Christmas. Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand Ok, this isn't going to cut it. No way are we supposed to agree on something. Sorry, you'll have to become an Atheist.

I've always believed in Jesus Christ, so I guess you and I have always agreed on this -- wheter you like it or not.

	08-12-2003 21:47									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Gangerolf I thought Winter Solstice was the real reason. Well not for Christmas obviously, but for having a celebration in December in the first place.

Hence, why I am talking about Christmas, and not some other secular spin on the holiday.

	08-12-2003 21:58									#25
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I know, I'm just pointing out that Christmas is actually a religious spin on an older secular (or pagan?) holiday.

	08-12-2003 21:59									#26
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Secular Spin on the holiday?

I thought Christmas was just a religious spin on a Pagan Holidays celebrating the Winter Solstice?

	08-12-2003 21:59									#27
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Well, that's true -- to some extent, Christianity owes its heritage from pagan cultures.

	08-12-2003 22:03									#28
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun For anyone who wants to share their thoughts on this, is there anything about celebrating Jesus Christ's birth that you find inspiring?

I always figure its a good time to drink some goat's blood and play my Ozzy Osbourne records backwards. But other than that its just a typical day.

	08-12-2003 22:05									#29
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** reads Jac's post **

	08-12-2003 22:08									#30
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It's really about having a big party in the winter to cheer everyone up because the weather's cold.

The Christians hijacked it but don't let that spoil your good pagan fun!