08-12-2003 22:24									#31
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I think you are refering moneypenny to that thread where I mercilessly wipped the ground with your liliputian arse.

namely:
LOTM says: ANTISEMITIC ATTACKS IN FRANCE, jewish pupils attacked

I say: a bunch of hot headed unemplyed muslim youths looking for jewish people to harass for kicks


You say: that's antisemtitism

I say: that's association hate crime.



you say: what if someone got attacked by a black guy and then hates all blacks because of this, isnt that racism?


I say: no its not "pure racism" it's association too.

I dont have anything better to do now except eating a toast so i reply to your trolls, to open my appetite

	09-12-2003 01:44									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin I can often not follow Ned's line of thought. Why should anyone blame it on Israel? What makes him think that there's anything new about any of this?

K, in the past, most of the problem has been anti-Semitism. Many Europeans blamed this mainly on the Muslim immigrants who were taking out revenge on local Jews for the policies of Israel. The Time article indicates that hatred against minorities is broader because they are all being attacked. Thus, not all the violence against minorities can be explained so easily by pointing to Muslims and Israel's policies.

	09-12-2003 02:01									#33
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The main point the reference to Israel misses is the long history of racism and associated crime, at least in the UK and also elsewhere in Europe.

About 10 miles from where I live is Clifford's Tower in York where the jewish inhabitants of the city were burned to death several hundred years ago. You can't exactly blame that one on the current policies of Israel, just on the ingrained tribalism and fear of others that lurks in most humans.

	09-12-2003 02:12									#34
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Absolutely agree.

	09-12-2003 02:51									#35
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There are many, many reasons for the recent rise in racism in europe, but I'd like to highlight the breakdown of the public discussion as suggested by Habermas and--

Actually, I wouldn't. It's a total bunch of bollocks.

	09-12-2003 02:54									#36
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But is it really rising?
I know that I for one don't trust certain sources to tell me that. Not after seeing libel after libel thrown against France co-inciding with the rampant antagonism of the US against it.
I'd really like to see some independent sources for a change and I take it these come from really independent human rights organizations. Not an article which has thrown together whatever it could find.

	09-12-2003 02:57									#37
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Well, rising in a long-term perspective. Say, after the end of the cold war.

	09-12-2003 03:00									#38
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Alabama? Why would you think I was from that hole in the ground?

A co-intern that I work with -- she's from Alabama, and is very intelligent person, mind you.

	09-12-2003 03:04									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Sandman Well, with enough anecdotes, half-truths, emotive language, selective use of statistics and generalisations, you can "prove" just about anything. This article, and most of the others like it, is complete and utter nonsense. I don't really blame Americans for falling for the notion that Europe is turning into the fourth Reich. I mean, the coverage is constant, and if you repeat a lie often enough, people will start to believe it.

well of course the its "1938" in europe or whatever is nonsense of course. It aint like 1938, or 1933, or even like France during the Dreyfus period. Really.

But EQUALLY the US isnt turning into a dictatorship, John Ashcroft isnt Himmler, Bush isnt a raving a moron, Cheney isnt a raving lunatic, etc. The US isnt attempting to conquer the globe. And Sharon is not Hitler, Israel isnt Nazi Germany, or even apartheid South Africa.

An environment of insult and exaggeration invites the return. And if Europe IS to judge the US for every aspect of its domestic policy that Europe dislikes, from the death penalty to the Patriot Act, and is going to claim a key role in mideast peace negotiations, then it is fair to hold Europe up to a high standard on human rights, hate crimes and antisemitism. A much higher standard than "it aint 1933" or "the EU aint the Fourth Reich" - as Europeans are so inclined to say about Israel, its BECAUSE we admire you and are allied to you that we hold you to HIGHER standards.

	09-12-2003 03:09									#40
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 I think you are refering moneypenny to that thread where I mercilessly wipped the ground with your liliputian arse. namely: LOTM says: ANTISEMITIC ATTACKS IN FRANCE, jewish pupils attacked I say: a bunch of hot headed unemplyed muslim youths looking for jewish people to harass for kicks You say: that's antisemtitism I say: that's association hate crime. you say: what if someone got attacked by a black guy and then hates all blacks because of this, isnt that racism? I say: no its not "pure racism" it's association too. I dont have anything better to do now except eating a toast so i reply to your trolls, to open my appetite

FYI, I was mugged by a black guy.

Yet i do not hate blacks, and I cant imagine attacking black kids in school. Thats racism, pakie.

Youre just making excuses.

	09-12-2003 03:11									#41
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That's twisted hate association. Racism is hating a group without it ever doing anything to you.

	09-12-2003 03:14									#42
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To make it even clearer to you: hating them for who they are. (or even more clearly for what you think they are)

	09-12-2003 05:58									#43
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I was attacked for being a Pom on Friday night.

Some Aussies are so racist, I tell you. I've still got bruise where the ****ers threw coins at me. Committers of such crimes are stupid too, they left me up about $5 in change after the attack.

Edit - I can spell, honest.

Last edited by Dauphin on 09-12-2003 at 06:31

	09-12-2003 06:12									#44
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A financially beneficial attack.