 |
| |
|
|
chegitz guevara
|
 |
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
|
|
The berserk unit is 6.2.1 and doesn't require a strategic resource, such as iron.The only other unit that powerful doesn't come 'till the end of the Middle Ages, when you get military tradition. It's a poweful enough unit to even take on rifleman. On top of all this, it can make amiphibious assaults, which more or less makes them immune to counter-attack, unless the ai decides to attack your ship, which isn't likely in that era.
I don't think the unit is warrented. In reality, the Vikings weren't the most powerful, toughest warriors in Europe. It's just that they mostly attacked unarmed, undefended settlements. When you're slaughtering defenseless monks, it's pretty easy to kick ass.
Yes, they conquered half of England, Normandy, and Sicily and Naples, but England wasn't really a country yet, France was undefended due to Charlemange's banning of castles for the nobility, and the Byzantines were having their asses hand to them on a plate by the Arabs and Turks and couldn't spare troops to defend its Italian possessions.
When the Vikings fought pitched battles, they lost as often as they won. They didn't conquer England (at least not until they were Francophied in Normandy for a few hundred years), failed in their invasion of Greece, etc. Compared to the Germans, who conquered half of Europe from the Romans, the Vikings were small potatoes.
I think the berserk should be changed. Make it a 3.2.1 unit with amphibious assault and it replaces the swordman. There is a reason the Scandinavians adopted more conventional methods of warfare during the middle ages.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
asleepathewheel
|
|
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:32
|
|
When PTW came out, it was thought that this would be a killer unit, but it hasn't turned out that way. A very nice unit, feared, but....And truly a unit that is only used properly in the human's hands. I have however seen them used in the middle ages scenario fairly effecitvely by the AI.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Fried-Psitalon
|
 |
Not just another pretty face.
Dec 2002
time: 00:32
|
|
The Viking IS a powerful unit, but honestly, I called it this way from the early days and I stick with it now:
It is a powerful unit in a very specific environment, and hopelessly vulnerable in any other.
Berserks have to travel by galleys - CURRAGHS can sink galleys. Dromons eat them for lunch. If you have advanced berserks that use caravels, the risk is less, but curraghs and galleys can still be a significant threat and Dromons will always terrorize you.
Berserker boats can be sunk.
On land, you've got the Persian Immortal twice again. Six attack is great, but there are a *lot* of fast-attack units that tend to appear around this time, and they'll eat a Viking for lunch. Sure you can stack some pikes with them, but then you need iron, and Berserk+pike is a touch pricey for what is effectively one attack unit. I'll trade the two attack for another movement and a drop in price and call it a knight, thanks.
They're pretty good at counterattacking out of cities, I'll admit, but they're unlikely to get first strike against all the knights of that time.
So: Berserks, IMO, are extremely effective - but only in limited roles, making them a balanced UU for a balanced civ.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
asleepathewheel
|
|
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:32
|
|
I recall one specific war where I took on a fairly large viking nation with knights. Due to the movement, and good positioning, I was able to take out what I wanted while denying them for the longest time a berzerk victory. (and thus their GA) On grasslands and plains, the are toast. A decent enough unit, but more limited than most, as FP has eloquently noted.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
Snotty
|
|
Longbows 2 point bombard needs to be taken into account. An essential part of any berzerk defense.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
CerberusIV
|
|
In PTW berserks were easy meat for knights on land. In one game one vet knight of mine took a 14 HP berserk army down to 3HP before retreating. If I had had another knight the army would have died there and then, as it was I killed it, and another one, later with cavalry.
C3C is a bit different as a 3x berserk army has defence 3 not 2 but I would still bet on a couple of knights to eliminate it on level terrain.
Berserks not in armies are relatively easy to kill with horsemen or even archers at a fraction of the price. Yes, you will lose units but you can replace them far faster.
The PTW AI used berserks amphibiously on relatively soft targets but the AI isn't good at hammering home massed attacks with any type of unit, unlike human players, so berserks are no different.
I do play with berserks substituting for MI, not longbows, so they come with feudalism and require iron. It doesn't seem to make much difference to the AI and is a slight boost to the human player although the AI's usually have chivalry anyway by the time I get feudalism.
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:32.
Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
top of page
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
09-12-2003 22:16
|