11-12-2003 19:48									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Cali, There's this thing called the "quote" tag and it is there for a purpose. As you may have noticed, italics is for emphasis. Putting the entire quoted passage in italics does not make it more important, it just makes it hard to read, and thus getting ignored. This is a message brought to you by your friendly neighbourhood webmaster.

Ok.

	11-12-2003 20:21									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander This is simply an opinion column. Check out one of his books if you want to see documentated facts, he has millions of them.

It's a lame excuse for an opinion column, because his core premise--that the Wright Brothers are denigrated in their acheivement for being white men--is utter crap. He doesn't even bother to try and substantiate it.

What's the point of it? If he wants to rant about how white men are being shat upon, then just say that without making up specious stories. Or using outright falsehoods in his examples.

Just because the guy wrote a bunch of books doesn't impress me. When he says something as ludicrous in his opinion piece that sans Wright Brothers, we wouldn't have flight, then I don't need to read his books to see he's a fool.

	11-12-2003 20:50									#93
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quote: because his core premise--that the Wright Brothers are denigrated in their acheivement for being white men

You might want to read the "lame excuse for an opinion column" again, as the author's core premise is very much not that the Wright Brothers are somehow being "denigrated". His premise seems to be that their achievement, along with the achievements of many other white men, are being ignored in a push to play up the achievements of minorities and women in the interest of diversity.

quote: When he says something as ludicrous in his opinion piece that sans Wright Brothers, we wouldn't have flight

He never said that, either. Strawmen sure are fun, though, aren't they?

	11-12-2003 21:02									#94
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten You might want to read the "lame excuse for an opinion column" again, as the author's core premise is very much not that the Wright Brothers are somehow being "denigrated". His premise seems to be that their achievement, along with the achievements of many other white men, are being ignored in a push to play up the achievements of minorities and women in the interest of diversity.

Urh, and he is "proving" this premise how? By saying the Wright Brothers are being discredited--his discussion of the Wrights takes up half the piece, and is in the title. But does he offer even ONE example of this happening? No. Point stands.

quote: He never said that, either. Strawmen sure are fun, though, aren't they?

I even quoted this before.

"That part of the United States is often referred to disdainfully as "flyover country" because it is part of America that the east coast and west coast elites fly over on their way to what they consider more important places. But they are able to fly over it only because of those mechanics in Dayton."

That is a pretty clear statement--without them, he asserts, we couldn't fly over the country. Now, do you believe that's true? I certainly hope not.

	11-12-2003 21:54									#95
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Add me to the list of those confused over the alleged failure to give the Wrights their due. Jeez, even students in China credit the Wrights with the invention of the airplane.

In fact, if nothing else, I think their contribution to the development of aviation is rather over-emphasized.
Makes a nice story for the American history books, though.

	11-12-2003 22:31									#96
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Four times a day, for seven years, I walked by a monument dedicated to the Wright brothers (on my way to the *lycée*), in my native town of Le Mans (France).

Even the Frogs celebrated the Wright brothers.

	11-12-2003 22:39									#97
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update:

the wright brothers are still dead, still white, and still male.

	11-12-2003 22:40									#98
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I'm not sure they are either white or male anymore, just dead.

	11-12-2003 22:42									#99
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surely you're not suggesting that the wright brothers are black transsexuals!

though that might get them into some history books.

	11-12-2003 22:46									#100
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Neither of the Wrights married, devoting their lives to their work. Or perhaps they were incestual gay lovers. There you go, Cali. Now we can preserve their place in history from this dreadful onslaught of invisible people trashing them.

	11-12-2003 22:49									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed surely you're not suggesting that the wright brothers are black transsexuals!

No, I'm suggesting they're putrified corpses which no longer resemble anything white or male.

	11-12-2003 23:03									#102
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it's a pity they aren't black or transsexual. after all, it would get the white power structure into a tizzy, wouldn't it ?

at least we both agree that the wright brothers are dead.

	11-12-2003 23:08									#103
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You lie!!!!

They are not dead! They work for Santa now.

	11-12-2003 23:10									#104
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Shh! dammit, mrfun, why'd you have to go and blow their cover?

they're still pasty white, though, being up in the north pole all the time.

	11-12-2003 23:12									#105
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Nah -- not pasty white -- more like creamy white.

	12-12-2003 01:10									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander What do you base this dubious assertion on? Here's his bio btw: Let me know when they publish your 12th book.

Nice biog.

Are you going to defend that article, incidentally?

	12-12-2003 03:26									#107
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This is a funny thread.

Just the other day I was thinking, "Cali hasn't posted a ridiculous race-baiting thread in a while... I hope he isn't sick or dead or something."

Gotta hand it to you, Cal... you are the straw that stirs the drink.

	12-12-2003 04:11									#108
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I'm going to try to sum this up. I don't give a hoot whether this pillock is black, white or mauve. I don't care if he's written twelve books or if he's the latest incarnation of Vishnu. He's witten a crap article. Hey! It happens to the best of us occasionally.

Click the blog for the extended rant.

	12-12-2003 05:43									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer This is a funny thread. Just the other day I was thinking, "Cali hasn't posted a ridiculous race-baiting thread in a while... I hope he isn't sick or dead or something." Gotta hand it to you, Cal... you are the straw that stirs the drink.

I can only resist the urge for so long it seems.

	12-12-2003 08:37									#110
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quote: "That part of the United States is often referred to disdainfully as "flyover country" because it is part of America that the east coast and west coast elites fly over on their way to what they consider more important places. But they are able to fly over it only because of those mechanics in Dayton." That is a pretty clear statement--without them, he asserts, we couldn't fly over the country.

You might want to read a few paragraphs down, where he says this...

quote: Man had dreamed of flying for centuries and others were hard at work on the project in various places around the world when the Wright brothers finally got their plane off the ground a hundred years ago, on December 17, 1903.

It seems pretty obvious that the author thinks flight would've been invented without the Wrights, given that he mentions the work of others around the world toward the same goal. The paragraph you quoted doesn't imply that the Wrights were the only ones capable of inventing flight, but merely the ones who did. In that sense, we are all flying because of the work of mechanics from Dayton. He's trying to give credit where credit is due, which is the whole point of the column.

	12-12-2003 08:56									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Man had dreamed of flying for centuries and others were hard at work on the project in various places around the world when the Wright brothers finally got their plane off the ground a hundred years ago, on December 17, 1903. It seems pretty obvious that the author thinks flight would've been invented without the Wrights, given that he mentions the work of others around the world toward the same goal.

So what if they were working on it? Coupled with his earlier statement you're so quick to dismiss, this doesn't make the caveat you claim. He doesn't say here "others were working on it and would have done it anyway," does he?

Regardless, the context of which this particular item was being discussed was in response to Cali's assertion that the article is about how some groups are "distorting history" for an agenda. My response, citing this one example, is that it doesn't help the author's case when he does the same thing.

As MtG pointed out, the Wright Brothers achievement is a bit distorted in standard history, at least through ommission. They were, in reality, two guys among many significant pioneers who helped advance the science of aviation. Their contribution was significant and deserves credit, but the degree to which Sowell here tries to laud them goes to the opposite extreme and undermines his entire point.