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Caligastia
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Yes, yes I do.
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Whoha
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The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:32
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Wrong Sava
About The refurbished Titan 4 satellite carrier:
"So you don't think our kids say to themselves, 'Gee, you know, Dad goes off to the factory every day and, you know, he builds missiles. These are weapons of mass destruction.' What's the difference between that mass destruction and the mass destruction over at Columbine High School?'"
About the Plaque:
"The plaque underneath it proudly proclaims that this plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve 1972."
What the plaque really says:
"B-52D Stratofortress. 'Diamond Lil.' Dedicated to the men and women of the Strategic Air Command who flew and maintained the B-52D throughout its 26-year history in the command. Aircraft 55-083, with over 15,000 flying hours, is one of two B-52Ds credited with a confirmed MIG kill during the Vietnam Conflict Flying out of U-Tapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southern Thailand, the crew of 'Diamond Lil' shot down a MIG northeast of Hanoi during 'Linebacker II' action on Christmas Eve, 1972."
Notice that even shooting down a mig doesn't mean that the pilot died.
About the Iraq Invasion:
"1990 - Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from the US"
I'd find out where he heard this one, the GAO, FAS and SIPRI groups all seem to disagree with this assessment:
http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/..._Imps_73-02.pdf
http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_IMPRTS_73-02.pdf
GAO report in HTML:
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/gao/nsi94098.htm
GAO report in PDF form from the GAO website:
or just do a search on NSIAD-94-98 from gao.gov
http://161.203.16.4/t2pbat4/150766.pdf
This film has been very thoroughly taken apart.
http://bowlingfortruth.com/
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Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:32
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Whoha: actually Moore acknowledges the stuff about Lockheed as well... click on the link...
http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/
quote:
Here's another whopper I've had to listen to from the pro-gun groups:
"The Lockheed factory in Littleton, Colorado, has nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction!"
That's right! That big honkin' rocket sitting behind the Lockheed spokesman in "Bowling for Columbine"-- the one with "US AIRFORCE" written on it in BIG ASS letters – well, I admit it, I snuck in and painted that on that Titan IV rocket when Lockheed wasn't looking! After all, those rockets were only being used for the Weather Channel! Ha Ha Ha! I sure fooled everyone!!
Or....
The Truth: Lockheed Martin is the largest weapons-maker in the world. The Littleton facility has been manufacturing missiles, missile components, and other weapons systems for almost half a century. In the 50s, workers at the Littleton facility constructed the first Titan intercontinental ballistic missile, designed to unleash a nuclear warhead on the Soviet Union; in the mid-80s, they were partially assembling MX missiles, instruments for the minuteman ICBM, a space laser weapon called Zenith Star, and a Star Wars program known as Brilliant Pebbles.
In the full, unedited interview I did with the Lockheed spokesman, he told me that Lockheed started building nuclear missiles in Littleton and "played a role in the development of Peacekeeper MX Missiles."
As for what's currently manufactured in Littleton, McCollum told me, "They (the rockets sitting behind him) carry mainly very large national security satellites, some we can't talk about." (see him say it here)
Since that interview, the Titan IV rockets manufactured in Littleton have been critical to the war effort in both Afghanistan and Iraq. These rockets launched advanced satellites that were "instrumental in providing command-and-control operations over Iraq...for the rapid targeting of Navy Tomahawk cruise missiles involved in Iraqi strikes and clandestine communications with Special Operations Forces." (view source here).
That Lockheed lets the occasional weather or TV satellite hitch a ride on one of its rockets should not distract anyone from Lockheed's main mission and moneymaker in Littleton: to make instruments that help kill people. That two of Littleton's children decided to engineer their own mass killing is what these guys and the Internet crazies don't want to discuss.
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oh burn... and I feel bad, you tried so hard.
I don't know about the plaque, but he doesn't mention that. But if all you have is he mistated what some plaque says, well  @ you
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Whoha
Wrong Sava
About the Plaque:
"The plaque underneath it proudly proclaims that this plane killed Vietnamese people on Christmas Eve 1972."
What the plaque really says:
"B-52D Stratofortress. 'Diamond Lil.' Dedicated to the men and women of the Strategic Air Command who flew and maintained the B-52D throughout its 26-year history in the command. Aircraft 55-083, with over 15,000 flying hours, is one of two B-52Ds credited with a confirmed MIG kill during the Vietnam Conflict Flying out of U-Tapao Royal Thai Naval Airfield in southern Thailand, the crew of 'Diamond Lil' shot down a MIG northeast of Hanoi during 'Linebacker II' action on Christmas Eve, 1972." |
So what, exactly, was this bomber doing over N. Vietnam during the Christmas bombings of not dropping bombs? And bombs do kill people, do they not? More than two million people, as a matter of fact, died during the Vietnam War, mostly because of these bombers.
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Caligastia
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I dunno. Let us run the U.S. for a while and we'll see. You can have it back if it doesn't work out. |
No thanks, we already saw what you did to those other countries we let you have.
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Whoha
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The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:32
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Yea, thats why every weapon in his arsenal is Soviet,french or Chinese, because we armed him.
The fact is, that US trade with saddam barely amounted to 1% of all trade done with him. Doesn't quite qualify "mostly built up by the Reagan, then Bush administration" does it.
Now for this site:
http://www.casi.org.uk/info/usdocs/...80s90s.html#ten
Number 11:
":Later in the year the Reagan Administration secretly began to allow Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Egypt to transfer to Iraq U.S. howitzers, helicopters, bombs and other weapons.[11]"
http://projects.sipri.se/armstrade/IRQ_IMPRTS_73-02.pdf
Eygpt:80 Training planes that are propeller driven
Jordan:2 Spirit S-76's, civilian craft that have to be modified.
Itally: 8 helicopters and 1 ship.
SA and Kuwait aren't even on the list of Places Iraq bought arms from.
Eygpt did sell them several soviet made weapons, thats pretty much it for the list. # 11 is wrong. In any event, the premise does not make sense, the US is the largest exporter of arms to the world, we would have sold them directly to him if we wanted to.
Number 37:
"U.S. intelligence reported in 1991 that the U.S. helicopters sold to Iraq in 1983 were used in 1988 to spray Kurds with chemicals.[37]"
I keep seeing this, and I keep seeing no proof of it, it sites an LA times article as a source. Lets see,30(not 10 as the piece states) Bell helicopters, or over 200 soviet helicopters... which one is more likely... and remember, our helicopters can be brought down by small arms fire, but the Hinds are quite impervious to that form of attack.
Number 38:
""Reagan administration records show that between September and December 1988, 65 licenses were granted for dual-use technology exports. This averages out as an annual rate of 260 licenses, more than double the rate for January through August 1988."[38]"
Only 15 licenses ever sent anything to Iraq, http://161.203.16.4/t2pbat4/150766.pdf, so this is a very misleading quote.
As for non-conventional weapons, Iraq had chemical and Bio warfare capabilities as early as 1980, well before we ever met with him,unless one of the 15 licenses was a Time machine, the allegation that we helped Saddam develop this Capability is Absurd. The Europeans and others were keeping him well equipped in that regards.
The House Banking & Finance committee shows that we sold Iraq biological research materials, not 500 tons of thiodiglycol like the Belgians:
http://cbw.sipri.se/cbw/002050100.html
Finally, to round everything out, the picture MM shows in that quote, is of a bunch of soviet tanks.
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11-12-2003 02:49
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