13-07-2000 15:15									#1
	Opinions please: Industrial sabotage Suffering from ads?

I remember reading a long time ago about a way to keep diplomats from sabotaging production (deleting all the shields in the box). It involved going into the change production screens, then going back to the normal city screen after the diplomat had attempted his dirty deed.

I'm trying to start a discussion on this trick. Is it:

A. A legititmate defense against yet another unbalancing ability of the diplomat. Why should a 30-shield unit be able to destroy hundreds of shields?

B. A cheesy exploit of lag by a whiner who failed to protect his city. Putting all your eggs in one basket has its hazards...

	13-07-2000 16:09									#2
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Read section 6.3 in the following thread:
http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum28/HTML/000244.html?date=08:29

And almost everybody I know considers this a cheat that shouldn't be used. Does anybody think this is OK in a MP game?

	13-07-2000 19:45									#3
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That's just manipulation of a flaw, not a "valid" (whatever that is in this game) defense. If you don't want diplos in your city...keep them out!

	14-07-2000 09:52									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

I agree 100% to Ming and SuperSneak.
However, I would welcome some legal and stronger defense possibilities against diplos and spys. It is just too easy to use them compared to the other units.


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greets from the Warrior of sky

	13-07-2000 22:34									#5
	Got spare money?

Most MP games I play now, we agree up front that you can't bribe cities (you can bribe barbarian cities). This has really made it a whole new game. You can still bribe units that are silly enough to be standing by themselves, steal technology, and everything else... This seems to even things out a bit.
You should give it a try

	14-07-2000 06:58									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Short of stacking units all around your cities, or at least stacking on the access routes, there's nothing you can do to keep out diplos. Sometimes a diplo/spy within the city will thwart industrial espionage and/or sabotage.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	14-07-2000 16:57									#7
	Tired of ads?

A costal city is almost impossible to guard against diplos/spies... unless you want to waste a bunch of ships sitting in every ocean square that touches the city. But inland cities along the borders are usually easy to guard. A good picket line protecting any easy 2 movement approach works like a charm.
The key is to see the diplo approaching.
However, you have to have a strong offensive unit in position, because the smart people will march a diplo up in combination with a good defensive unit over tough terrain...

	14-07-2000 17:26									#8
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I brought this up because I think it's yet another facet of the game that favors ICS. The builder type player has to have an expensive infrastructure to support his large cities. If a stack of five diplos wipes out a temple, library, marketplace, and city walls in a city, that city won't be helping the builder player much for quite a long while. Meanwhile, the ICSer has a bunch of small cities that are invulnerable to sabotage because they have no improvements!

By the way, my vote is that the shield preservation trick is a cheat. I was just looking for confirmation that I could use diplos aggressively. But some people aren't going to like it...

	14-07-2000 20:33									#9
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I don't think it's a cheat. I consider the defense just a form of being prepared. You have to be paying attention to that part of the map. If you are than you should be able to defend.

	15-07-2000 09:01									#10
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MWHC... are you really saying that you think using the time lag method to save accumilated shields from diplos/spies is acceptable?

	15-07-2000 16:45									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

I absolutely agree with MWHC. Pay attention for your cities and get a chance of preventing them from being sabotated.
This feature is certainly not intented by the designer. But in the context to the game it isnīt groundless at all. And it makes the game even smarter.

	15-07-2000 22:27									#12
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Yeah... right... It DEFINATELY wasn't the intent of the designers... I bet you have no problem creating Non units with the time lag trick either OH Please......

	16-07-2000 01:00									#13
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It is a cheat that works due a programming "hole".

Sabotaging is very effective.In fact, too effective.I'm still batting 1.000.It just never fails.Unless you assign a spy a specific target you will never fail in sabotage attempts.Thats just a little too strong.

	16-07-2000 01:55									#14
	Tired of ads?

Well here'sds the way I see it sagitoge is a ground for war right?

If you're stronger and someone is sabitoging you, it time for you to go on the offensive. They can destroy the sheilds from their captured cities all they want while I smash them.

If you are weaker amd some onne is sabtoging you, you need a tigher defense. Maybe a limited war, or counter strike will teach your opponent to leave their diplos at home.


Personally in MP I always responded to Diplo functions as declartions of war, I may not say anything and make a mean strike strike latter, but thats the best method of keeping them away

	16-07-2000 18:35									#15
	Remove this text

Yeah Frank... In a MP game, I don't care if someones actions with diplos keeps their "reputation" intact or not... I still view any such action as an act of war. The best way to stop those kind of actions is to make the player doing them disappear
<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by Ming (edited July 16, 2000).]</font>