13-05-2001 05:25									#1
	Crisis In Civilisation Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Me and Paul Hanson have been playing the scenario Crisis in Civilisation on Multiplayer and we were the USA and the EU respectively. I just thought id let you know how things are going.
US has canada and japan as well as mexico and some cities in africe. the EU has all of ukraine and all of russia up to moscow as well as a few cities here and there. However it is turning into nukes are us!
Cites that have been nuked:

USA
Washington
New York
Seattle
Miami
Los Angeles
San Francisco (*2)
Tokyo
ZaoZuang

EU
Paris
London
Rome
Barcelona
Berlin

NEUTRALS
Accra
N'Dahja
Khartoum

CHINA
Harbin (*2)
Beijing (*2)
Zibu
Shanghai (*2)
Nanjing
Hangzhou
Nanchang (*2)
Changsha
Xian
Chongquig


So as you can see the world is a wasteland. The US is at war with everyone apart from the EU and the EU is at war with russia. So not looking goodd for world peace. i just had 35 F-22s and 20 M-1s destroyed in 2 nuke attacks.

So how do you think we are doing?


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I am the LORD OF STRONDAR

	13-05-2001 05:26									#2
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UP date

Osaka and Kutakyushu nuked by chinese and indian launches

	13-05-2001 05:44									#3
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Has global warming kicked in? I can't remember if it was disabled or not...

Sometimes, I like to play as the USA, change the government to Communism, and then nuke the hell out of the Russians. The irony kills me.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

	13-05-2001 06:38									#4
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global warming has been disabled (thank god!!!) next turn i will have 15 nukes so woe betide anyone who gets in my way. im going to nuke russia so the EU can conquer them and then its china and then india and then the nuetrals who will feel my wrath!

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I am the LORD OF STRONDAR

	13-05-2001 08:21									#5
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What real reason would anyone have for nuking Chad?

	13-05-2001 09:45									#6
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Well, it gave us lots of problems during our elections...

	13-05-2001 19:23									#7
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Er...Which scenario is this?

	14-05-2001 09:22									#8
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Andrew, was global warming turned off in your scenario? I didn't think it was...

	14-05-2001 00:31									#10
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And I must add, this is an extremely interesting game that me and Grothgar are having. Full of dodgy political dealings and such things.

We made a couple of adjustments to the events files:

Firstly, we got rid of the events that prevent the US and EU from negotiating. Now we can trade all sorts of things, thanks to the improved bartering system allowed between human players.
Secondly, we removed the events that cause the player civ to lose money when civilians are killed (we were playing with the EU events, so when Grothgar killed civilians during his conquest of Canada, I lost all my money. I made sure that he fixed this quickly )

I would recommend that some of you give it a try at some point. Me and Grothgar are playing it via dial-up networking, but it could be done via e-mail, although you`d be missing out on some of the features.

	14-05-2001 00:32									#11
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I thought it might be. If you liked it you could at least refer to it by its correct title so people know.

O Gods! I've created a monster!

Actually you can't disable global warming per se. You can disable pollution from cities, but the pollution from all those nukes going off is still going to land you in trouble. Which will be interesting as Urban terrain replaced swamps.

You might like to know that version 3.0 is almost ready and will probably be released next weekend, as soon as I get some feedback from my playtesters who seem to be ignoring my e-mails...Mao!

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"The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone he can blame it on" - anon

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower

	14-05-2001 00:35									#12
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The pollution from the nukes hasn`t caused any problems as of yet, and if it were going to it would have by now (China is a radioactive wasteland, as is half of the US coastline, both east and west).

	14-05-2001 01:19									#13
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Ah, it would appear that you're correct and disabling pollution does prevent global warming.

I should warn people that version 3.0 has pollution enabled (as requested by SCDARS). I've made some changes to compensate for this) but you can of course disable it yourselves.

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"The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone he can blame it on" - anon

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower

	14-05-2001 03:11									#14
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Sorry for some reason i thought that the Name was Crisis In Civ so i apologize for that. But yes you have to get rid of the events causing the EU to lose money as i was happily murdering Civilians and nothing was happening but then Paul kept complaining that he was broke. And i love the barter system although at the start the US is very far behind in terms of economy i was losing 600 a turn at the start to keep my science rate decent. But that has been Rectified

Here is a timeline (of what i remember) of what has happened

January 1992:
Gary Smith wins election against Bill Clinton to become a Republican US President.
Paul Hanson is elected with an overwhelming majority by the EU council to become the new President.
Gary Smith takes an idea from the EU and makes all healthcare in the US free.
Gary Smith kindly loans the EU an Aircraft Carrier so they can copy the technology.

July 1992:
US military starts to do live fire exercises on the Canadian and Mexican Border. The protests from both countries is taken "under consideration".
EU forces begin to practice under one leader and using one radio communication frequency near the Polish border because of reported unrest in Warsaw.
In his budget President Smith announces a 20 fold increase in military spending.

January 1993:
In a lightning assult Tanks and aircraft from the US military take Quebec, Montreal, Toronto and Winnipeg. Canada is already on the ropes and they try to sue for peace but the US is having none of it.
In a seperate incident Mexican forces were overwhelmed by the massed aircraft of the US airforce. Guatemala and Mexico City are taken easily and their military forces disbanded
The Unrest in Warsaw reaches its peak and the EU forces are quick to restore order in the troubled city. Hungary is unhappy and starts to move troops in as well only to be overwhelmed by EU forces traveling towards Bucherest. It falls without a struggle. Also Algiers and the other city near it fall to the Spanish Paratroop Regiment.

Thats all for now because im trying to remember some more. we are in 2009 now i think so if paul has any to add he can do so. We are having a great time carving up the world for democracy
Until i can remember more!
Goodbye



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I am the LORD OF STRONDAR

	14-05-2001 03:23									#15
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Well, if you're happy, then I'm happy.

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"The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone he can blame it on" - anon

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower

	14-05-2001 14:10									#16
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I didn't think the global warming from nukes could actually be turned off. Something about an effect besides the pollution byproducts, ie: to do with the detonation itself raising the global temperature.
Oh well. Time will tell ...


Nuke em till they glow, then shoot em in the dark.

	14-05-2001 23:04									#17
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Nukes dont actually cause global warming if it is disabled. What happens is that the global warming icon appears and keeps going until it reaches the theoreticel position and then it just dissapears and it never comes back so it cant cause global warming.

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I am the LORD OF STRONDAR

	15-05-2001 07:20									#18
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Sorry sorry sorry! Drop me a line @ ChapMan85@aol.com . I'll get you some more comments about Crises, or did you want feedback on your other projects? My aol account's always screwy, sue me

	15-05-2001 10:51									#19
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This scenario really is the all-time winner in the "biggest nukefest" category! My "Final Solution" to India and China involved nuking ever city down to size one, and then watching them wink out of existence when occupied by some other nation they'd pissed off! My favorite strategy involved nuking units positioned next to two or three cities...a very economical way to spread the devastation. I also learned that it was unwise to keep more than two or three units in any of my cities. Large city-based troop concentrations seem to be the equivalent of waving a huge "Nuke ME!! flag at the AI.

	15-05-2001 12:19									#20
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Isn't the widespread use of nukes kinda' contrary to the spirit of the scenario? Unless he actually DESIGNED the scenario with that intention in mind...

	15-05-2001 12:31									#21
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The scenario is designed to be able to run any way you want... practically the only thing that can't happen is the USA and the EU going to war with one another. China invades cambodia the first turn, The USA can invade Cuba, Iraq, and Iran for no reason (barbarian cities), it's lots of fun. Wanna try and unite the entire world with an all out slug fest? That's possible. Want to turn the USA into a communist government and then nuke Cuba, Beijing, and Moscow? That's possible too. The diplomacy screens are the best though... they crack me up. "Our country is used to peaceful solutions. Prepare to die!"

	17-05-2001 02:44									#22
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So if I didn't want a nuclear war, and I also didn't want to pay some country tribute, could I make that happen????

	20-05-2001 06:53									#23
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Cal is spot on with that analysis. I don't believe in making scenarios too restrictive for the human player, so although this scenario has a theme with a defined objective to aim for, it's pretty flexible in how you play it.

I hadn't really expected it to be of much interest for multiplayer however, and I will release my own MGE patch correcting the events. If you're playing as the EU or US and you kill a civilian you are going to be penalised. If you don't like that try playing as the Russians.

You can have a look at the design thread @ http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum18/HTML/001220.html . The issue of using nukes did come up and I suggested a theoretical strategy to avoid having them in the scenario.



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"The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone he can blame it on" - anon

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower

	20-05-2001 08:23									#24
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Hey Andrew, is the new version of your great scenario ready to be released to the public yet?

I know I'm looking forward to it.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

	20-05-2001 16:28									#25
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Cal, you can read this from the web page to whet your appetite. It's largely finished now, I'm just tinkering with little things and trying to find a way to calm the AI down. I'm sure there's a connection with certain technologies but I haven't been able to lock it down yet.

Overview

The major new feature in version 3.0 is a revised map foundation in which major continents were split up and later rejoined. When you play any new game on a world map, the civ2.exe looks at adjacent land squares and includes them in the same land mass, so you have only two major land masses: the Americas, and Europe/Asia/Africa. In this version there are around 50 land masses, and the divisions accord quite closely to starting territory. This affects both AI attitude to neighbours and trade bonuses (see below). I also tinkered with the coastlines to effectively prevent new cities founded in the artic circle from building costal improvements or ships to simulate the lack of open water access. I also tinkered with the fertility of the land which should prevent the AI from founding cities on non-Urban squares.



Amendments

I had a lot of feedback after version 2.1 including necessary corrections and additions. So I've corrected all the spelling mistakes for city names ("Toyko" still makes me cringe), and transplanted some cities to other correct locations. There are more Rogue events and starting cities in Sudan and Myanmar, and appropriate events have been added.



New Graphics

I had to add a new pollution icon because of the reintroduction of industrial pollution, and I also added new railway graphics. For the units I had another Freight unit icon to replace the old one, and added new Frigate and Cruiser icons.





Miscellaneous

A new front-end launcher program. Indian events. I also needed to juggle the tech tree slightly to swap the slot for Microwaves and Plastics (MP and Pla both increase pollution) with future technologies so you don't start out with cripplingly high pollution. I also had everyone start with some free Engineers to cope with pollution clearing. I also replaced Hydroponics with Clean Industry Act (San reduces pollution), which you don't start out with but must research to reduce pollution further.



Another important correction is the selective disabling of negotiations with the Allied powers. Feedback had pointed out the problems with America invading Canada, but I was worried about restricting the human players' choices too much that a blanket denial would involve. It later occurred to me that I could disable negotiations between the Americans and Allies if playing as the Europeans, and between the Europeans and Allies if playing as the Americans. For the Russians, Chinese, and Indians it could be disabled for both. I also sneakily allied the Allies with the Rogue states via hex-editing because in previous versions the conflict between UN peacekeepers and Rogue units at the start of the game made it almost too easy for the human player to go in next and finish the job. This alliance is invisible, and unbreakable because the alliance is fixed for both sides and can only be broken through negotiation, which you can't do with the Barbarians. It also simulates the role of the UN as a more neutral player - except under your command.

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"The man who can smile when things go wrong has thought of someone he can blame it on" - anon

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower

	20-05-2001 19:16									#26
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I've just looked into the technology thing and I was right: it was Robotics (SFl) that was causing the problem. So: avoid Space Flight - it makes Alliances with the AI less durable. I'm going to re-juggle the tech tree slightly to adjust for this.

All this means that version 3.0 is going to give the human player less trouble if you want a peaceful game, but does not help my problem with a psycopathic AI. Pls see the other thread for suggestions.

	21-05-2001 05:26									#27
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*drools*

	23-05-2001 11:51									#28
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Question: Why is Greenland a rogue state in your map?

	24-05-2001 05:45									#29
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Geez Cal don't you know how rebellious the Greenlanders were?

	24-05-2001 11:50									#30
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Greenland is still a part of Denmark you know...
Although some would agree that Denmark is a rouge state
I think most people woldn't.