11-12-2003 23:19									#31
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i will admit i've never parented before. and i'll also admit that i have no appreciation for how difficult it probably is. however, i never said that i thought everything was the parents' fault. all i'm saying is that videogames are another form of entertainment, which places it squarely in the jurisdiction of parenting.

i'm in opposition to this not because i oppose a labeling system, but because i don't think it would be helpful.

the system we have is confusing, yes. so why not stick movie labels onto them, and then force enforcement of those labels?

why do we need to do something brand new when we haven't even actually tried to work with something that's already around?

	11-12-2003 23:20									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed no, what i'm saying is that if parents don't check the labels, what's the point in making another one? will they suddenly say: "my god! i've been ignoring them all this time!" parental supervision: finding out enough about the game, i.e., through reviews on such sites like familymedia, and then making a decision whether to allow such games to be installed on the home computer or not. parental supervision with dvds, movies, and home videos do not differ much from that.

when people here and elsewhere are constantly saying that games are harmless, why should a parent go to the troubleof doing that level of research - clearly youre only going to bother if you think games can really be harmful.

	11-12-2003 23:22									#33
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label in this case != what's on the box. "pornographic" is not a label on the box. nc-17 is a rating.

AO is a rating.

'label' refers to a term used to refer to a genre. 'pornographic' is a 'label'.

as for those recommendations, i disagree with none of them.

	11-12-2003 23:23									#34
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when have i made the claim that such games are harmless? do tell.

	11-12-2003 23:25									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i will admit i've never parented before. and i'll also admit that i have no appreciation for how difficult it probably is. however, i never said that i thought everything was the parents' fault. all i'm saying is that videogames are another form of entertainment, which places it squarely in the jurisdiction of parenting. i'm in opposition to this not because i oppose a labeling system, but because i don't think it would be helpful. the system we have is confusing, yes. so why not stick movie labels onto them, and then force enforcement of those labels?

R rated - dont admit under 17 unless accompanied by parent? The movie rating system assumes a movie theater (depsite the video rental industry) and doesnt seem quite appropriate for games. And thats the main gap, now isnt it? R rated movies admit youngsters, BUT ONLY with an accompanying parent. People treat M as equivalent to R, even though parents dont "accompany" their kids when playing games. What they should have done was have simply E, T, and AO. (or PG, PG-13, and X) if you prefer. I suspect some people in the gaming industry wouldnt have been pleased to have such hits as Diablo labeled X or Adults Only however.

	11-12-2003 23:28									#36
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yes, there's a difference. but the thing is, parents know that system, and they understand that system. simply move over that system and redefine a few things, and there you have it.

people in the movie industry aren't happy with an nc-17 rating.

and as long as parents can excercise control over the computers, and decide which games to allow purchase of, they are in effect doing the same thing as taking them to see a certain movie.

	11-12-2003 23:28									#37
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i realize i've used the term 'label' in two different contexts here.

	12-12-2003 01:49									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed yes, there's a difference. but the thing is, parents know that system, and they understand that system. simply move over that system and redefine a few things, and there you have it. people in the movie industry aren't happy with an nc-17 rating. and as long as parents can excercise control over the computers, and decide which games to allow purchase of, they are in effect doing the same thing as taking them to see a certain movie.

Not quite - if i take my kid into an R rated movie (which i dont, BTW) i see exactly what she's seeing, and can talk to her immediately about what we've seen, or even walk out. If i buy something at a store, all ive got is the label, unless I play the game through.

	12-12-2003 01:50									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed label in this case != what's on the box. "pornographic" is not a label on the box. nc-17 is a rating. AO is a rating. 'label' refers to a term used to refer to a genre. 'pornographic' is a 'label'. as for those recommendations, i disagree with none of them.

so its a word they made up to make a rhetorical point. Like chickenhawk, or idiotarian, or whatever. People do that sort of thing all the time.

	12-12-2003 01:52									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed when have i made the claim that such games are harmless? do tell.

Many others have.

	12-12-2003 01:52									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed label in this case != what's on the box. "pornographic" is not a label on the box. nc-17 is a rating. AO is a rating. 'label' refers to a term used to refer to a genre. 'pornographic' is a 'label'. as for those recommendations, i disagree with none of them.

then I see nothing in particular to debate.

	12-12-2003 07:35									#42
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which is why i can't understand why you think i'm nuts for thinking the term "killographic" is stupid, worthless, and really really dorky.

	12-12-2003 12:01									#43
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don't you guys think violent video games are bad for kids?

	12-12-2003 17:23									#44
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spoken like a man who hasn't read the thread.

	13-12-2003 01:35									#45
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by the way - i looked at some (favorable) reviews of "manhunt" - is that rated M? can someone tell me why its not rated AO?

	13-12-2003 01:44									#46
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This word does not work for 2 reasons:

Gratuitious violence has only 2 more syllables than killographic and sounds a lot more official.
Killographic also contains 3 more syllables than most teens are ever likely to utter.

Meaning the only people to use the word are members of that special interest group, which will mark and brand them for life

	13-12-2003 01:48									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar This word does not work for 2 reasons: Gratuitious violence has only 2 more syllables than killographic and sounds a lot more official. Killographic also contains 3 more syllables than most teens are ever likely to utter. Meaning the only people to use the word are members of that special interest group, which will mark and brand them for life

killographic

marked for life

	13-12-2003 06:02									#48
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Killography == Biography of a Viking

	13-12-2003 12:41									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed spoken like a man who hasn't read the thread.

no I haven't read the thread, but I have read the article at CNN.

I think game ratings should be more stringent.

	13-12-2003 13:37									#50
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark killographic marked for life

Lynch him!!!