11-12-2003 17:44									#1
	killography Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/fun.ga...reut/index.html

quote: A public interest group had a holiday warning and a new word Monday for parents of video game users: Beware of "killographic," defined as the "graphic depiction of brutal violence."

i laugh at how silly some people are.

	11-12-2003 17:53									#2
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Isn't that just showing 1000 pictures a second?

	11-12-2003 18:07									#4
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Isn't that just showing 1000 pictures a second?

with typo that is...

	11-12-2003 18:10									#5
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why is it silly?

	11-12-2003 18:12									#6
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well, for one, i wasn't aware that we needed a new word for it.

doesn't "contains gratuitous violence" describe it better?

	11-12-2003 18:15									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

What if it contains 1000 gratuitously violent images per second? People with the capacity to process information into meaningful form that quickly deserve a warning...not to take that much dexedrine, I guess. So it's pretty stupid even then.

	11-12-2003 20:33									#8
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	11-12-2003 22:27									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed well, for one, i wasn't aware that we needed a new word for it. doesn't "contains gratuitous violence" describe it better?

so why not "contains gratuitous sex" instead of pornographic?

	11-12-2003 22:29									#10
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Rats. I had thought this was a thread about Killbots.

	11-12-2003 22:33									#11
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1. pornographic is a word that has been around a long while.

2. pornographic's meaning is linked to "contains gratuitous sex".

3. killographic is a new word which does not appear to have any traction; it is not punchy, it is not cool, and therefore does not look like it will become synonymous with "contains gratuitous violence". it runs the risk of falling into the buzzword fever. (different from the buzzword disease.)

4. it fails the audio test. if you hear anyone say it, at all, it sounds dorky. supremely dorky. "Terminator X: Jason meets Freddy meets Ahnold. Warning, contains killographic scenes."

5. "killographic" is an adjective. to use it, one must say "contains killographic scenes" or some such. "contains gratuitous violence" holds the same meaning, in the same number of words, and violence itself is a noun, avoiding that trap. because the important part of that sentence is held in the noun, rather than the adjective, further gradations are possible. "contains mild violence" "contains cartoon violence" "contains hard-core violence", whereas with "killographic", one would have to say, "contains mildly killographic scenes" or some variation thereof.

	11-12-2003 22:46									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed 1. pornographic is a word that has been around a long while. 2. pornographic's meaning is linked to "contains gratuitous sex". 3. killographic is a new word which does not appear to have any traction; it is not punchy, it is not cool, and therefore does not look like it will become synonymous with "contains gratuitous violence". it runs the risk of falling into the buzzword fever. (different from the buzzword disease.) 4. it fails the audio test. if you hear anyone say it, at all, it sounds dorky. supremely dorky. "Terminator X: Jason meets Freddy meets Ahnold. Warning, contains killographic scenes." 5. "killographic" is an adjective. to use it, one must say "contains killographic scenes" or some such. "contains gratuitous violence" holds the same meaning, in the same number of words, and violence itself is a noun, avoiding that trap. because the important part of that sentence is held in the noun, rather than the adjective, further gradations are possible. "contains mild violence" "contains cartoon violence" "contains hard-core violence", whereas with "killographic", one would have to say, "contains mildly killographic scenes" or some variation thereof.

its cool to make movies that include sex. Its not so cool to be in the porn business. Its marginally acceptable to let your kids see movies with sex - its ostracism time if you let them see porn. I think this is an attempt to indicate that at least some games etc are worthy of the same degree of stigma as porn gets. As such its more powerful than "contains gratuitous violence" I suspect it will be used by those want very violent games to have this stigma, and disdained by those who do not.

	11-12-2003 22:50									#13
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By the way heres the groups site.


http://www.mediafamily.org/index.shtml

They include concise game reviews - they like Simcity4 and RON, and are, not surprisingly, rather less enthusiastic for the latest Diablo, which they consider Ok for ages 17 and up.

	11-12-2003 22:53									#14
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heres a sample from their latest "report card"

"Video and computer games continue to grow in popularity among children and youth. We completed the largest student survey ever and found that 87% of youth in grades four through twelve now play video games with 96% of boys playing regularly. This bodes well for the continued growth of the industry, and a balanced diet of good games can certainly be a positive part of children's lives. Nevertheless, as games become more engaging and popular, concerns about their impact on youth become more urgent.

The concerns fall into two categories:

The easy access that boys have to increasingly ultra-violent M-rated games and the popularity of the most violent games with that group.
The growing issue of screen time as it relates to the obesity epidemic. "

	11-12-2003 22:56									#15
	Put an end to popups!

creating words for the hell of it is an asstastic pasttime.

attaching "killographic" to try and stigmatise gratuitously violent games is merely adding another word to subvert.

why?

go to the mall. look in the stores. you will see girl's babydoll tees that say "porn star".

	11-12-2003 22:56									#16
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I've been playing GTA3 for a couple of months now, and I think it's actually reduced my urge to kill all youse *****es.

	11-12-2003 22:58									#17
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so it's ok to kill people en masse when they're tiny, but not ok to kill them when they're larger. got it.

placing a label on these games will only let parents get out of parenting. a good parent, if they were concerned about this stuff, would actively check to see what games the kid is playing.

	11-12-2003 22:59									#18
	Full PM-box? Change here!

"87% of boys play M-rated games as do 46% of girls.
78% of boys report that M-rated games are among their top five favorites, and 40% say their favorite game is rated M.
77% of boys own M-rated games with one in five reporting that they purchased an M-rated game without their parent's knowledge. "

	11-12-2003 23:00									#19
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and? you could probably get equally scary statistics about how x number of boys rented an NC-17 or R rated movie without their parents knowledge.

	11-12-2003 23:02									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed creating words for the hell of it is an asstastic pasttime. attaching "killographic" to try and stigmatise gratuitously violent games is merely adding another word to subvert. why? go to the mall. look in the stores. you will see girl's babydoll tees that say "porn star".

despite the above, i think porn still commands a stigma - so some will subvert it - its constant war.

	11-12-2003 23:04									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed so it's ok to kill people en masse when they're tiny, but not ok to kill them when they're larger. got it. placing a label on these games will only let parents get out of parenting. a good parent, if they were concerned about this stuff, would actively check to see what games the kid is playing.

They mention RON's historical context - and yes, it probably is worse for kids to take the role of a shooter than of a general - one is more immediate, immersive, in the gut etc. But why do i go on?

	11-12-2003 23:06									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed and? you could probably get equally scary statistics about how x number of boys rented an NC-17 or R rated movie without their parents knowledge.

One of the things they pointed out was that video game retailers really dont enforce the ratings system - movie theaters at least attempt to - im not sure about video retailers - in any case, why does that make this less of a concern?

Note also that movies do sometimes get NC-17 ratings. Games almost never get AO ratings.

	11-12-2003 23:07									#23
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note, lotm, that i'm not arguing that some games are definitely worse for kids than others.

note that i also don't disagree that some games to contain gratuitous violence.

my gripe with the issue is the fact that these people, disturbed with the fact that too many parents are too lazy-assed to parent their kids, felt the need to create a new (useless) label rather than to suggest workable ways for effective parenting.

	11-12-2003 23:08									#24
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note that the movies that often get nc-17 ratings tend to be sex movies.

note that most computer games for mass consumption do not tend to be about sex.

	11-12-2003 23:09									#25
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note that Medal of Honor: Allied Advance or whatever it was called has historical context.

	11-12-2003 23:10									#26
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed so it's ok to kill people en masse when they're tiny, but not ok to kill them when they're larger. got it. placing a label on these games will only let parents get out of parenting. a good parent, if they were concerned about this stuff, would actively check to see what games the kid is playing.

well thats why this site goes beyond the label and provides a review for parents.


so you think that if there were no labels parents would THEN carefully check each game? When the survey shows plenty of parents dont even check the label now?

I agree that parents should go beyond the labels and check the games - but i think its good to have things that help parents - some of whom are far less game and computer literate than I am.


How exactly is the parental supervision supposed to work? Are they supposed to stand over their kids every minute the kid is playing a game? Or are they supposed to play the entire game through to see what it contains? So to be a good parent you have to be able to play GTA, FPS' etc at all levels? Thats absurd.

	11-12-2003 23:12									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed note, lotm, that i'm not arguing that some games are definitely worse for kids than others. note that i also don't disagree that some games to contain gratuitous violence. my gripe with the issue is the fact that these people, disturbed with the fact that too many parents are too lazy-assed to parent their kids, felt the need to create a new (useless) label rather than to suggest workable ways for effective parenting.

Note i dont think labels solve every game related problem. Note I dont call for censorship.


My gripe is that some people blame everything on parents, dont have any idea of how hard parenting is, and would fight against a helpful labeling system.

	11-12-2003 23:12									#28
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no, what i'm saying is that if parents don't check the labels, what's the point in making another one? will they suddenly say: "my god! i've been ignoring them all this time!"

parental supervision: finding out enough about the game, i.e., through reviews on such sites like familymedia, and then making a decision whether to allow such games to be installed on the home computer or not.
parental supervision with dvds, movies, and home videos do not differ much from that.

	11-12-2003 23:15									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed no, what i'm saying is that if parents don't check the labels, what's the point in making another one? will they suddenly say: "my god! i've been ignoring them all this time!" parental supervision: finding out enough about the game, i.e., through reviews on such sites like familymedia, and then making a decision whether to allow such games to be installed on the home computer or not. parental supervision with dvds, movies, and home videos do not differ much from that.

they didnt ask for another label - they use "killographic" in their discussion of certain games, they do not ask that the current ESRB rating system be changed. You didnt read what they say on their site, did you? er, uhm, "lazy-assed"?

	11-12-2003 23:17									#30
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Here are their recommendations:

"Recommendations

Eliminate double messages to parents and educate them about why it is important to monitor game play and observe the ratings. The reasons should be based on scientific evidence about both the potential benefits of educational games and the potential harm of violent games.
Retailers without policies should adopt and enforce verifiable policies that prevent children and teens from buying M-rated games without parental permission.
Retailers with policies should diligently enforce them.
The ESRB should apply the AO rating in accordance with their own guidelines.
The Advertising Review Council should continue to enforce guidelines for marketing and advertising. "


Which of these do you disagree with.