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SixArmedMan
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Toronto, Canada.
Jan 1970
time: 00:13
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Harlan's Pacific War scenario bugged the hell out of me... You'd spend so much time on your first turn only to have your carriers sunk by roving American planes weaving their way through your fleet to find your defenceless carriers... ALWAYS irritated me. I never started a second turn... I'm still of the opinion that a good Pacific war scenario is unlikely because of the computer's dismal use of carriers... Well, there's still Darthveda's one for TOT coming out but wasn't that one supposed to be released last year? Or something like... What do I know anyways?
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No offense to Nemo, but I didn't like Red Front either. I'll admit that it may probably the closest thing to a perfectly designed scenario, but as I've stated before... I just can't roleplay the commies in that war.
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Cal
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Hermosa Beach, California, USA
Aug 2000
time: 05:13
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There seems to be a lot of anti-Red Front sentiment around here...
Personally, I loved it! How can you have a moral issue when playing a civ2 scenario? Civ2 reduces everything down to the emotionless tactical aspects, and besides, in a time of crisis, it's best to forget about the 1930 Purges.
The only thing I disliked about Red Front is that it had no definite ending, I would've liked all hostilities to have ceased once Berlin was captured and Hitler was dead. In contrast, Kobayashi's Dominion scenario has definite conclusions and wipes whole civilizations off the map with the capture of the capital or paramount cities to insure there's a conclusion even when negotiations aren't allowed.
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Leonidas
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Red Front is one of the best designed scenarios out there. It takes WORK to learn how to play it properly. But it is superbly done. I have played all of the versions of this scenario - and they get better each time. Nemo broke the traditional Civ "mold" when he designed this scenario. It set a standard that rarely has been matched.
In contrast, I cannot recall how many times I have downloaded and played other scenarios (by all designers) with the expectations of great game play only to wind up deleting that scenario because of bugs, inconsistencies, or down right dum civ/AI/diplomatic actions. For example, there is one middle east scenario (can't recall the name), that started out to be a great scenario. I was playing the Israelis against the Arabs. Then as I started winning, NATO declared war on me! Give me break - as usual - I deleted that scenario.
Nemo's scenarios are some of the best out there - they are well-designed and it takes real effort/strategy to play them well. Anyone who dosn't want to be challenged and be forced to use real strategy - should not be playing Nemo's scenarios. There are plenty of easy, substandard ones out there. . .
------------------
Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.
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techumseh
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of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:13
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Well, I guess there had to be a reaction against the Nemo cult. I
thoroughly enjoyed my first game of Red Front. As an experience, desperately fighting for your life against the blitzkrieg,
it is second to none. You really begin to understand how the Soviet
High Command must have felt when they went to bed at night during the long
summer and fall of 1941.
But once you open it up under cheat mode and see what you're up
against, it rapidly becomes demoralizing. It loses its appeal as a GAME, because it's obvious there's no way to WIN THE WAR, as opposed to surviving the scenario.
Nemo has made a contribution to Civ scenarios as great as anyone. The
problem he's run up against, like a number of others, is that "bigger
isn't always better". This is compounded by the new systems (hex editing, BAT files, etc.) which have been piggybacked onto the basic Civ2 software. At some point, the increased size and complexity now possible in scenarios just makes them not worth the effort. I hit that wall with "Second Front", amoung others.
The biggest disappointment for me was "Sacrificial Blood". Even though I was supposed to be a playtester, I could never get the over-elaborate installation system to work. And I'm at a loss to explain why you need to get a password just to download it. So I still don't know if it's worth the major effort required by the author to play his creation.
So my beef is not bad scenarios, it's good scenarios that are too large/complex to enjoy. Multi-chapter scenarios are the main culprits.
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Cal
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Hermosa Beach, California, USA
Aug 2000
time: 05:13
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh on 05-17-2001 10:38 PM
It loses its appeal as a GAME, because it's obvious there's no way to WIN THE WAR, as opposed to surviving the scenario.
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What do you mean there's no way to win the war? Certainly in June 1941 there isn't... but Red Front is quite winnable, just this recently I finally forced myself to play through it on Deity and managed to hold enough German cities (including Berlin) to force a German Decisive Defeat at the historical date, May 1945.
edit: Not that I'm bragging or anything. 
I think the only thing that bothered me about Second Front was that you had to know when to attack a certain city... and if you did it when the wrong events were loaded, you were wasting your time. I've yet to play past the third events files.
Oh, and as for a popular scenario I didn't like: I wasn't fond of Third Reich... it had some bugs, and by the time I got around to playing it, it was already a very "old" scenario.
------------------
The strategically impaired,
-Cal
[This message has been edited by Cal (edited May 18, 2001).]
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17-05-2001 02:34
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