 |
| |
|
|
Anun Ik Oba
|
 |
Grace of God
Sep 1999
time: 00:32
|
|
Its going to bite Take Two in the butt, because they've conceded to remove the offensive materials from future releases of the game, basically stating they were in the wrong in the first place.
But the protestors want more.
They should have stood their ground and said, "Hey, its just a game. Don't like it? Don't buy it!".
Last edited by Anun Ik Oba on 13-12-2003 at 02:09
|
|
| |
|
|
|
General Ludd
|
 |
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:32
|
|
|
|
 13-12-2003 01:57
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
#17
|  |
|
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: GTA: Vice City forced to censor their game
|
Tired of ads?
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
Its request - thats all. A request is speech, under the first amendment. Take two didnt have to remove anything if they didnt want to. Its not a question of politeness, its a question of voluntariness. If some other developer CHOOSES not to make a game like this is that censorship - no its choice - if Take two decides to change the game - thats their choice. If they choose to do so at the request of someone who has nothing to wield against them but speech, thats part of life in a FREE society. |
First of all, enough with the first amendment nonsense. I don't care much for bible thumpers. 
But you're right, Take Two is as guilty of censorship as the lobby groups who prodded them to do it.
quote:
"dont have to break skulls for it to be done, they could of gone about it very politely, but it's still ________"
fill in blank - its still genocide against Haitians for example = the whole argument that censoring this i wrong depends on the distinction between SAYING something and doing something. Its ok to criticize Haitians, or even say that they should die - thats protected speech until you actually throw a rock at them - ditto for critizing a game, or speech within a game. |
What, exactly, are you trying to say? The genocide comparison is strange enough. But are you implying it's not censorship untill bricks are being thrown? 
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
General Ludd
|
|
Minion of the Dominion
Aug 2001
time: 05:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by lord of the mark
its not censorship until theres a threat of force, or of government sanction backed up by force.
If the govt says change this or we'll arrest you thats censorship. If they say change this or we'll fine you - since the fine is backed up by force - thats censorship. If a private citizen says change this or i'll toss a brick through your window - thats censorship.
If a private citizen says - change this or it will make me mad - thats not censorship. If he says change this or I'll picket in front of youre office thats NOT censorship. If he says change this or i'll never buy your products ever again thats not censorship. |
That's bull ****.
 Wait - ****, ****, ****. What's happening?
Is someone threatening to beat Markos with a club, or is this not really censorship?
quote:
Firaxis doesnt release FPS. Is Firaxis engaging in censorship? Maybe its cause they think it wont sell, or Sid doesnt think it would be fun to design. Maybe its cause he dont believe in them. If the latter, youre being denied a potentially "great" game cause of someones moral beliefs - is that censorship - if not, why is Take Two making the choice to change something censorship? |
I'm sorry, but that's a **** anology. ****, ****, ****. Dumb.
We're talking about a lobby group pressuring a media producer into removing certain lines from their scripts (which, I might add, have already been recorded) because they don't like what it's saying. Not some game designers waffling over what they wants to do.
And seriously, not making FPS games due to moral beliefs?
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
lord of the mark
|
 |
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Osweld
We're talking about a lobby group pressuring a media producer into removing certain lines from their scripts (which, I might add, have already been recorded) because they don't like what it's saying. Not some game designers waffling over what they wants to do.
|
Im confused. Before I thought you said it was Take Two that was engaging in censorship, NOT the protestors. Now you say its the protestors. Which is it?
If Take Two - its their right to change their own product, whether cause they want to win brownie points with Haitians, or cause they just feel like it.
If its protestors, how so, cause they did nothing but speak. You say pressure - how did they "pressure" take two - by speaking out? then Take two is guilty of "pressure" for advertising their game, which pressures people into buying it - what, you say, I dont have to buy just cause they tell me to? well, Take two didnt have to change the game just cause somebody told them too.
Please explain what "pressure" was applied.
|
|
| |
|
|
|
lord of the mark
|
|
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:32
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Osweld
The lobby groups for pressuring them - and I'm not going to play semantics games, pressuring can mean whatever the hell you want it to - and Take Two for giving in. |
Youre not going to play semantic games - the first poster called what going on censorship - i said that the word censorship was being misused. You then came down on me for that. Er this IS a semantic "game" if you will. If youre not concerned with semantics why not just say "I, Osweld, dont like what the Take Two did and what the protestors did, whatever you call it"
Perhaps because some of us wouldnt really care that you dislike it. But if its CENSORSHIP, thats bad. I mean every right thinking person is against censorship, right? Yes, they are, BECAUSE censorship means certain real specific things, and those things are bad.
Youre the one playing a semantic game, and a dishonest one at that. You havent presented any argument why what the protestors did or what take two did was actually a bad thing - all you could do was call it a name - "censorship" then when you were challenged on the meaning of censorship, you claimed you didnt want to play semantic games.
Look - censorship is BAD - cause it concentrates power in the hands of the STATE, who tend to abuse it and who can use censorship to foreclose all debate in a society. Pressure by private citizens on OTHER private citizens to make different cultural products is simply part of civil society - yes it means some things wont get published - but so do lots of things, from the profit motive to the evolution of retail channels to the whims or writers and game developers. I see no reason why the pressure of a group of protestors is less worthy as an influence on what gets written or developed as the whim of some designer.
These things balance out - if a group applies pressure to restrict something a creator thinks of as having real value, they will tend to resist, and the protests will typically gain more attention to the product - thing "last temptation of Christ". If a creator gives in as easily as Take Two its almost certainly because they thought that what was challenged was of no real value to begin with. I think thats the case in this instance. Take two made something trashy, someone called them on it, and they decided they didnt want have their name on something obviously trashy, esp as changing it would effect sales anyway. Case closed, all there is to it, no need to invoke high principle. This was a business decision on their part, no more censorship then their decision to include or not include something in a game.
|
|
| |
|
| |
|
|
|
lord of the mark
|
|
FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:32
|
|
BTW, here are the four games take twon has listed on their website.
"Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne
Max Payne 2: The Fall of Max Payne is a violent, film-noir love story for mature audiences. Dark, tragic and intense, the in-depth story is a thrill-ride of shocking twists and revelations.
Manhunt
America is full of run down, broken rust-belt towns where nobody cares and anything goes. In Carcer City, nothing matters anymore and all that's left are cheap thrills. The ultimate rush is the power to grant life and take it away, for sport. This time James Earl Cash, you are the sport. They gave you your life back. Now, they are going to hunt you down.
"Mafia
Mafia - out now on PC and coming soon to the PlayStation®2 and Xbox® - brings the 1930's underworld to life. Take on the role of hit man, enforcer, getaway driver and more in your struggle for respect, money and power. Put on your suit, strap yourself into your Cadillac and enjoy the ride.
"Midnight Club 2
Rockstar once again sets a new benchmark in the racing genre. In Midnight Club 2 you are an elite, illegal street racer, more dangerous and skilled than ever racing throughout the cities of Paris, Los Angeles, and Tokyo."
This is one trashy company.
And spare me the stories about how youve been playing Quake since you were 3 and you turned out OK.
I dont care. Its still trash, and you cant take away my right to say so (well Ming, et al can, at least here, but I dont think they will)
|
|
| |
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:32.
Apolyton Time is 00:32. |
top of page
|
| archivepost |
|
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
|
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
|
|
|
|
|
|
Censorship is censorship. Doesn't matter if it's some suit in a government office or a lobby group.
They where asking them to remove content. That's censorship. Censorship has nothign to do with force - it's about denying certain content to be shown. You dont have to break skulls for it to be done, they could of gone about it very politely, but it's still censorship.
), you are wrong. This isn't censorship. It is a bunch of people who are protesting a game and the game company decided to change their content because of it. That isn't censorship, but a part of free speech rights to persuade people to not do certain things.
|