12-07-2000 03:43									#1
	What makes a game go to the end? Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

With 4 or less players i have had the most luck with.

MDL settings
1 all open spots filled with AI
2. No alliences
3. tech trading and bribing allowed.
4. island maps

More then 4 players
1.no alliences, stealing or bribing.
2. trading of techs
3. little war at the start.
4. island maps

	12-07-2000 04:43									#2
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1x1x
islands
dedicated players

	12-07-2000 05:34									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Conquering the world or reaching Alpha-Centauri

	12-07-2000 05:38									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Doesn't matter what the settings are if you don't have dedicated players.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	12-07-2000 09:53									#5
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comunication: people able to tell each other when they are or aren't available and then turning up when they say they can

	12-07-2000 10:59									#6
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Go get 'em, Hydey. Damn shame that Diplo game has foundered due to foreign ignorance and rudeness.

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finbar
Mono Rules!
#33984591

	12-07-2000 13:31									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

A lack of a real life helps get games finished

	12-07-2000 16:41									#8
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I think the most important thing (not including playing with Diehards) is that the game remain interesting. If the game is pretty even and everyone has hope, they're more likely to play again. If one person falls too far behind, (like an ICSer that gets found early or is ravaged by barbs) has a tendancy not to want to continue or just drops out of the game and is never heard from again. Or if one player gets out to a huge lead, the others may not want to continue.

Most of the games that I'm doing well in aren't continued and I end up continuing games where I had a bad start. But since I'd rather continue games, you do what you have to.

So if you really want to continue games, try to keep the game even.

RAH

	12-07-2000 17:27									#9
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RAH - actually, it seems like you're saying, "if you really want to continue games, fall behind early".

	12-07-2000 18:25									#10
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Dedication is the magic work. Getting some enjoyment out of it is also worth something, even when the odds are against you. Subs don't seem to like it if they have a weak civ so they don't stick with it.

In last year's diplogame (II) I was invited to join in as the English which was down to no.6 at the time? Realizing that I would never be able to match the big guys I chose the path of co-operation which worked out pretty well in the end.

	12-07-2000 18:26									#11
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Unfortunately, that is the best way.

Or take a chance and play with newbies that are so excited to play, they don't care if they get their butts kicked.

RAH
Adopt a newbie today.

	12-07-2000 23:51									#12
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

over 90% of my games that went past industrialization where MDL games....

last night i started a new game with bezerker Smartfart and arii, we will continue it on thursday and i am sure we will get to at least inudstrialization. Even though arii has a commanding lead on diety, (having mikes and HG) he will not dominate the game as i have the oracle, which is just as powerfull. Point is in MDL nothing is certain, and if you are winning at the start that doesn't mean you will win in the end, makes it interesting.

	13-07-2000 01:03									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

100% of the games that I've been in past Industrialization weren't MDL games.

Sorry, couldn't pass up that line

The group you've just listed is also known for continuing games. Good Luck and have fun.

RAH

	13-07-2000 01:22									#14
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The MDL Oracle tweak is good and an obvious change to me.At least it is being built with the change.But I don't see how the other changes help.I don't see a huge finishing percentage at home site either.

Dedicated and/or no life types.

Hopefully fairly close in skill/experience/ability/whatever.

LARGE maps with seperate continents/big islands.Each player gets a decent sized mass to start with possibly 1 large unsettled,unclaimed landmass roughly in the middle.Kinda of a giant "King of the Castle" map.

I not very qualified here.Unfortunately,the sheer length of a long game may be the root problem.I've invested over 50 hours to individual games.That is hard to schedule 3-6 hours at a time.With people in different time zones,different lives etc.

	13-07-2000 01:24									#15
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I have a suggestion...
Couldn't we edit the rules.txt and take out alot of the things that arent really used in MP..i mean like skips some techs esentially making the game progress faster. I'm not saying my idea is a good one but maybe something could be done so a game could be played in 3-5 hours.

	13-07-2000 03:21									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Rah : congrats on adopting a newbie

I have no nerve for that.
Spank his a$$ hard just as my mentor Makeo spanked mine.
In my expirience,thats the best way to earn some skill.

By the way...is that a ferret in the basket on OT picture contest?

<font size=1 face=Arial color=444444>[This message has been edited by SmartFart (edited July 12, 2000).]</font>

	13-07-2000 04:02									#17
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It appears to be. But I promise I had nothing to do with it. My picture is in there, but alas, that one isn't Vito.

RAH

	14-07-2000 09:31									#18
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From my personal experience:
few (3-4) dedicated fast players
at least 2 4-5h sessions a week
a lot of free time or similar time zone/availability
a game that is balanced so that all the players have an interest in pursuing the game

AC is extremely hard to reach in MP. It takes 25-50h so 7-12 playing sessions. Hard to keep everybody that long.

I wish there was a way to shorten the game to about 20h. Things that can be done:
play king (less turns to discover each techs)
play until a specific wonder is built: darwin, women sufrage, ....
give every player cash or some techs at the start to speed up the early game

Regarding the current game (markus, smart, berz, arii): smart is the most dangerous player on the board until metallurgy. He has already destroyed 1 and took 1 of my good cities. Great wall/sun tzu is I believe more dangerous than mike/HG. He can take out anybody and take his wonders.

	13-07-2000 22:23									#19
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

MDL games i have played on average lasted 12 hours to get to rocketry... But that was with players like crustation jedi and wonderdog and me. When you don't build many army units and don't start a war early on the game can move very very quickly.

	17-07-2000 08:26									#20
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It's hard to keep people interrested long when the start is unbalanced. Time and time again I've seen games inwhich one or two civs are destined to dominate from the start, barring a bad barb situation real early. Sometimes I'm one of the lucky ones, sometimes not. I think the map needs to be at least large enough to assure everyone a decent start. Prolonging the life of the Oracle will help, but not necessarilly. When someone gets a start much better than anyone else on a very small map in DP (the usual case), even amongst equal players, I don't think it would be all that rare for one person to snag the oracle along with MC and JSB. I think the key is at least a 40x 50 map, preferably larger, for better terrain. On a medium size map with small land masses and archipelagos 4 players should be able to have decent terrain to work with, enough separation for good early developement, yet perhaps not quite enough land mass for an ICS approach to be completely dominant. It would probably even elevate the worth of the lighthouse and Magellans with respect to the big happies, at least for people who are good at making the most of caravans. Also allowing people to develope for a while relatively unmolested should allow for faster tech rates.