13-12-2003 11:35									#1
	EU style of diplomacy for CIV IV Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Do you think that EU stile of diplomacy can work for civ IV? The implementation can be slightly different, but I like idea of having numerical value associated with relations, having multiple ways to modify that value (like if you make good to country A, and country B is in good relation with country A, then you relation with country B is improved). Also I like seeing financial difficulty of declaring the war to a friend.

	13-12-2003 12:29									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I'd like this sort of thing:

When two nations enter negotiations, their respect rating of you means how far you can push them. If it's low, you may be able to demand one, small thing (e.g. peace). If it's medium, you may be able to have a few things (nuclear disarmament, anti-pirating). If it's very good, good things (e.g. alliance).

I'm sick of only blilateral diplomacy. It would be nice to hold summits with more than one leader and come to universal agreements (ala UN, European Union).

	13-12-2003 18:16									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Related to that is that there will need to be a huge penalty IF you break your word, as well as if you attack somebody with which you have a high numerical relationship.

Possibly something along the lines of riots/army defections - something that will make you pay through the nose. EU2 has stability hits for that.

EU2 does have Casus Belli too - however, I cannot see this working as well in civ4 because there are a lot more nations in EU2 - and it is needed to prevent you from simply gobbling up the small ones.

Regarding diplomacy - get rid of the infinite proposal bargaining table. Make it 3 times per turn to get it right, and if you do not accept on the third turn, there is a 5-10 turn diplomacy blackout on that matter.

Of course, the AI/AI proposals would always get it right on the first try...

	13-12-2003 19:18									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The problem with the EU diplomacy system is that the numerical values of +/-200 are totally over the top. There's no effective difference between -200 and -151, except for the amount of bribe money needed. Indeed, since the smallest relation damage is only about -5, we could reduce the scale to +/-40 without impacting significantly on the meaning of it.

I'd support an EU-style diplomacy system, so long as the numerical diplomacy values were reduced to a sensible level.

	14-12-2003 00:59									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Frozzy I'd like this sort of thing: When two nations enter negotiations, their respect rating of you means how far you can push them. If it's low, you may be able to demand one, small thing (e.g. peace). If it's medium, you may be able to have a few things (nuclear disarmament, anti-pirating). If it's very good, good things (e.g. alliance). I'm sick of only blilateral diplomacy. It would be nice to hold summits with more than one leader and come to universal agreements (ala UN, European Union).

wrt summits

	14-12-2003 04:00									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: When two nations enter negotiations, their respect rating of you means how far you can push them. If it's low, you may be able to demand one, small thing (e.g. peace). If it's medium, you may be able to have a few things (nuclear disarmament, anti-pirating). If it's very good, good things (e.g. alliance).

CTP2 works like that except that there's two basic parameters that control things: regard/respect and trust. But, it's more complicated than that because the personality of the AI civ's leader may be taken into account (e.g., scientific personalities are more likely to trade advances).

	16-12-2003 10:33									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

But there is more in EU that is completely missing in CIV:

If you are doing something good for someone, than you improve relation not only with that someone, but also with its friends. And vice verse.

In this sense there is difference between relation -200 and -150:

Say, country A has relation -200 toward you, and country B has -150. If country C doing something good to you, then relation of country A towards country C is reduced more than relation of country B towards country C. (Ugh, sounds like mathematical theorem)