14-12-2003 10:07									#1
	Working the Land Got spare money?

I don't see a place for this anywhere (I think the official thread hasn't been posted yet) so I'm just going to make my own thread for the moment.

Tile improvements.

I'd like to see a hybrid system. In this system, tile improvements such as irrigation and mining done within your borders would be handled by a public works type system. However, once you get outside the land that is technically yours, and you want to build roads, rails, colonies, and forts and such, it would require the use of workers.

This way in the early game you can still have fun building up your civilization, and in the late game you don't have to worry about the swarms of workers going around to cleanup this polution or irrigate that tile.

Eh? Eh?

	14-12-2003 10:26									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I want these improvements (3 to a catagory):

Transport:
Roads
Railways
Maglevs

Land based food imp:
Irrigation
Farms
"advanced Farms" come up with a better name

Water food-increasing:

nets
fisheries
marinas

Production increasing:
Mines
Mega Mines
Drilling platforms (same as mega mines, but on the sea

Miscellaneous:
Fortifications
Airbases
Seaports (same as airbases, only they fix ships and are on coastal tiles)
Radar (allows you to see enemy units on the mini-map, but not on the screen for a radius of, say, 16 tiles?)
Listening Post (allows you to physically see 8 tile radius)
Sonar buoy (allows you to see subs in a 5 tile radius)

	14-12-2003 10:32									#3
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I see no reason for "maglevs". Who ever heard of transporting military units on maglevs, and how do they different significantly from railroads?

	14-12-2003 10:46									#4
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Well, I hate unlimited movement on railroads. I say railroads are 1/5 of a movement point, and maglevs are 1/10. (which, if you think about it, is realistic)

Maglevs actually go significantly faster that railways, in some places over 2x as fast. They don't run on rails, they levitate over them and only de levitate when they stop.

How do roads differ from railroads except that trains go faster and run on rail. How do maglevs differ from railroads except they go faster and levitate over rails.

Besides, had maglevs been there instead of railroads in the 1940s, you'd see trains of soldiers on maglevs, not rails

	14-12-2003 10:53									#5
	Support Apolyton

I think that infinite movement is realistic if in fact units travel fast enough to make so that in one turn they're ready to battle somewhere else. Frozzy, don't you think that rails permit to transport ALOT of troops in few days? Perhaps there's a max on the quantity, but even then...

	14-12-2003 10:59									#6
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Throw soldiers in buses and they can go a long way in a few days, too.

	14-12-2003 11:01									#7
	Remove this text

I'm sorry, I just laugh at anything called a "megamine"

	14-12-2003 19:31									#8
	terraforming Increase the size of your Attachments

I would like to have terraforming
for example
plains to hills or swamp to hills

	14-12-2003 22:05									#9
	Support Apolyton

"Advanced Farms" should be called "Industrial Farms", if they are supposed to mean farms that use vehicles, synthetic fertilizers, refrigerated warehouses and other industrial equipment.

Mega Mines could rather be called "Deep Mines".

	14-12-2003 23:15									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have two problems with this - first, maglevs and many of the second- and third-tier improvements sound really, really stupid/futuristic, and second this is WAY too much like CtP(2).

	14-12-2003 23:57									#11
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: "Advanced Farms" should be called "Industrial Farms", if they are supposed to mean farms that use vehicles, synthetic fertilizers, refrigerated warehouses and other industrial equipment. Mega Mines could rather be called "Deep Mines".

Thank you This is what I meant

	15-12-2003 00:12									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Irrigation should be limited to provinces immediately adjacent to rivers or lakes. This would prevent continent-wide irrigation schemes steming from a single lake. Advanced technology should allow this 'irrigation radius' to spread further, to two or three squares away from the water source.

At a certain point, geology or some such technology should allow you to tap into aquifers. These would be represented on the mini-map in much the same way as resources or luxuries are, except that they would provide a source of water for irrigation.

	15-12-2003 02:52									#13
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Sandman Irrigation should be limited to provinces immediately adjacent to rivers or lakes. This would prevent continent-wide irrigation schemes steming from a single lake. Advanced technology should allow this 'irrigation radius' to spread further, to two or three squares away from the water source.

As for all Maglevs, Megamines, etc... keep them out. Tile optimization for every square of you country is fun once or twice. But then after a few games you know the "best" way for every tile, and it just becomes a chore. It should certainly not be a chore that is repeated every couple of centuries.

If you want to represent farming technology getting better as the civ advances, then have farm output increased as you discover approrpriate techs. Easy, clean, and there's no forgetting to go back and REfarm everything.

	15-12-2003 04:00									#14
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I kind of agree. At the beginning I enjoy manually moving my workers around. I don't know why. But once you finished most major improvements they can be a pain.

If it is a workerless sytem, surely there can be a better interface than CTP2. Uggh, I hated that public works system for some reason.

	15-12-2003 06:05									#15
	Remove this text

Some kinds of improvement should start to decay if they remain unworked for long periods of time. Irrigation systems should fall apart, marshlands should return, forests should grow back, mines should cave in, etc.

I'd leave roads and railways out of it, though.

	15-12-2003 08:34									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I posted this in the resources thread:

As far as food production, try out the double your pleasure mod for PtW. I like there system of food production but i think it should be made more professional instead of just getting around the game engine.

basically you should be able irigate at some point early in the game. without irrigation your cities hsould not be able to get much bigger than size 3. with irrigation you should then need aquaducts to further your cities significantly beyond some limit, like the existing 6 or 7.

then when you discover crop rotation you should be able to farm. this will allow cities to get up to a point where sanitiation would be needed to progress past some point, like 12.


then there should be something, like the tech fertilizers or somethn like that that would allow you to make an 'advanced farm' (i dont know what to call it) that would allow the metropolis sized cities of today (with a few megaopolises in very fertile regions). and hospitals would be needed to let you get passed some limit of like 18 or something like that

and finally there should be some kind of near future tech, like hydroponic labs or food recycling or something that could be a further improvment to allow megalopolis (Blade Runner sized) cities in the near future times, cities that would get up into the 30s.