15-12-2003 16:20									#31
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Win3.1 an OS ??

	15-12-2003 16:46									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You might as well upgrade since Windows "Longhorn" is anywhere from 3-5 years away.

* Urban Ranger chuckles softly at the mention of "Longhorn"

quote: Originally posted by Agathon Windows 3.1 and 2000 are the only acceptable OSes MS has ever shipped.

DOS is better than 3.x...

If you are looking at the "home" line, 98SE is the best and should be the end of line.

But you forgot Xenix, which is a version of Unix that MS shipped long long time ago.

	15-12-2003 16:53									#33
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I really don't follow MS anymore.

I'm happy with OS 10.3 - it's stable and has never caused me a single problem.

Win 3.1 had a bad UI, but it worked and I never had any trouble with it. 2000 is the only other MS GIU-OS that I could say the same of.

	15-12-2003 17:12									#34
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My P42400 With 512MBDDR and Win2000 Pwnzj001!!1

	15-12-2003 17:33									#35
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upgrade to dos 6.22. unfortunately, since that's damn hard to find, try www.freedos.com

xp pro is nice. i like it more than 2k.

you could always try gentoo linux, or redhat fedora or mandrake, if you want it to actually work right away.

	15-12-2003 18:19									#36
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I would like to upgrade too, but I have very little idea how to go about it. Can someone help me?

First of all, I would like somemore RAM. I have a Dell Dimension 8100 (1.5GHz pentium, 256MB DDR RAM (unfortunately I think this is in two slots, but I am not sure), 40GB hard drive, GeForce 2) , which is about 3 yeras old - can I just buy any RAM and stick it in, or do I have to figure out what RAM it takes? I also want a new graphics card - does it make sense to buy a top of the line one, or should I get a semi-old one?

I would also like to upgrade to XP. I have ME right now but it is really needing a reinstall. But XP seems really expensive on the High Street. Is there anywhere I can order it over the web cheaper?

Once I do install/reinstall, what do I need to do? Presumably I don't just install on top - I want to wipe my drive completely to get rid of all the junk. But do I have to make a start-up disk or something? Otherwise my CD reader won't work - right?

And what would you recommend for firewall, viruschecker ect, bearing in mind that I am on a limited budget.

Could anyone give me a step-by-step guide to doing this, or point me to one on the web?

	15-12-2003 18:30									#37
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i too have a dell 8100. if you buy more ram, it has to be 800mhz rdram, and you have to buy the memory in pairs.

as for graphics cards, you can get a top of the line one if you want--we've got an agp 4x port, meaning that it works with anything, really, that's recent.

as for installing xp, there's an option in the dell bios which lets you set boot order. make sure that cdrom si higher in priority than the hard disk. conversely, you could also press f12 when you have the dell screen, and choose cdrom.

	15-12-2003 18:39									#38
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what i've done with my dell 8100:

came with 1.7ghz, 256mb ram, 60gb hd, 1 cdrw.

i added a second cdrw and an 80gb hd... those were easy as pie, shouldn't be too hard for you either.

as for ram, i had to order two sticks, which set me back more than i'd budgeted for it (2x256 = 512) for an end total of 768mb, and if i remember right, you'll have to move the power supply to get to the ram sockets. the latch is right next to the green vent for the cpu, and it hinges out.

i haven't changed my graphics card, but i might do that sometime soon. that's just a matter of popping out your old one and plugging in the new one--it *should* work with no problems.


as for firewall, i suggest kerio or zonealarm. more people use zonealarm, but i've also heard reports that it doesn't like being uninstalled.

for av, there's grisoft avg. they're good and free.

if you need more help, just pm me.

Last edited by Q Cubed on 15-12-2003 at 18:44

	15-12-2003 19:43									#39
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Thanks Q. It will be a little while, since I want to do it after Christmas. I'll PM you if (when?) anything goes wrong.

But why do I need to buy the memory in pairs? Couldn't I just stick in an extra 512 on one chip? (stick? what's a stick?)

	15-12-2003 19:52									#40
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it's the ass-backwards way rdram works.

http://www.intel.com/support/mother...emv2/tti001.htm

that said, i suggest using industry standard samsung for it.

	15-12-2003 21:20									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i too have a dell 8100. if you buy more ram, it has to be 800mhz rdram, and you have to buy the memory in pairs.

Yuk.

Debian is good too.

	15-12-2003 21:21									#42
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Rogan: RDram works kinda like dual channel memory, that's why it has to be installed in pairs...

	15-12-2003 21:28									#43
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thing is, when the 8100s were the flagship model for dell, rdram was the best type of ram you could get for p4s.

	15-12-2003 21:30									#44
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debian's not as friendly to n00bs.

	16-12-2003 08:43									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed thing is, when the 8100s were the flagship model for dell, rdram was the best type of ram you could get for p4s.

You could tell RDRAM stinked (still stinks), couldn't you? Even Intel supported it for less than 1 year.

	16-12-2003 08:45									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon I really don't follow MS anymore. I'm happy with OS 10.3 - it's stable and has never caused me a single problem. Win 3.1 had a bad UI, but it worked and I never had any trouble with it. 2000 is the only other MS GIU-OS that I could say the same of.

dammit, I want Asher back! It was fun watching him bash you mac users

	16-12-2003 09:40									#47
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker dammit, I want Asher back! It was fun watching him bash you mac users

Even when he invented fictitious facts?

At least this discussion has been, civil, informative, and useful to some people.

	16-12-2003 09:47									#48
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quote: Even when he invented fictitious facts?

examples?

IIRC, it was more you who invented suspicious facts

IIRC, it was more you who made uncivil discussions (*points to Agathon's remarks about Asher's BF*)

	16-12-2003 09:56									#49
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Oh, and one can't help but refer the the Mac Forum drama, which everyone except you and Drake AFAIK admitted was absolutely ridiculous in terms of how you acted towards Ming and your reactions to the whole fiasco.

	16-12-2003 10:25									#50
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker quote: Even when he invented fictitious facts? examples?

Claiming that people's purchased itunes music would necessarily be wiped if they left the US (Drake is still enjoying his in Japan). That was one of the last ones, there were others.

quote: IIRC, it was more you who invented suspicious facts

Nope. I never invented anything.

quote: IIRC, it was more you who made uncivil discussions (*points to Agathon's remarks about Asher's BF*)

*points to Asher's various remarks about other posters' family members, sig others, etc. that started that whole business.

I don't care about that idiot anyway, he's on perma ignore if he ever comes back, and UR being moderator will ensure that computer discussions are fun and useful to everyone.

	16-12-2003 10:28									#51
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quote: Originally posted by skywalker Oh, and one can't help but refer the the Mac Forum drama, which everyone except you and Drake AFAIK admitted was absolutely ridiculous in terms of how you acted towards Ming and your reactions to the whole fiasco.

Ming and I are cool on that one, that's all you need to know.

And things turned out pretty well as far as I am concerned. We can now discuss computer stuff in the OT without it degenerating into a ridiculous farce (which if you recall was the chief reason people migrated over there in the first place).

edit: that's all I have to say on the subject.

	16-12-2003 11:40									#52
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skywalker is just a stirrer

	16-12-2003 11:48									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger skywalker is just a stirrer

Yeah. But we all know he's a good guy really.

	16-12-2003 11:50									#54
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Oh, Asher says that you need some sort of dual carborators to run 6 degrees of RAM.

	16-12-2003 17:01									#56
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quote: You could tell RDRAM stinked (still stinks), couldn't you? Even Intel supported it for less than 1 year.

rdram at the time stunk not because of its performance, but because it cost so damn much. buying ramsticks in pairs? who came up with that asstastic idea?

i still have to say... update your hardware, ditch 98se, update to winxp... and then download the application compatibility pack. then you can tinker all you want to get the old stuff working. or dual boot, i guess that works too.

i'd be wary of hooking up the 98 machine to the inet... microsoft's products are a bit holy, and they only really work on the ones they support, so if you stay with 98, i'd take it off the net or invest in a good firewall. zonealarm or kerio, for instance.

	16-12-2003 17:20									#57
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Dissident:

If you're still serious about upgrading, then here's how you should do it. I should know, I have done this on four machines this year:

1) Make a list of all software you have on your PC now, that you wish to have installed after the upgrade. Gather said software, and make sure you have everything. I usually make a folder on another partition than the system partition. In this folder I keep all software that I wish to install after the upgrade. Don't forget the removal tool for the blaster worm. Of course for software you haave bought, you should have the CD's

2) Download WinXP drivers for all your hardware. Make sure you get it all. Put them in a folder on another partition than your system partition, or burn them to a CD.

3) Double check that you are now in possession of all software that you wish to have installed after the upgrade.

4) Format your system partition. Yes that's right. Don't upgrade. Install from scratch. No good things ever come from upgrades. Upgrading is just inviting problems. Don't do it. Always install an OS from scratch!!

5) Install windows XP

6) Download all XP patches. Remember to start with the security patch that makes the blaster exploit impossible. (I actually had this once...I got blaster almost immediately after installing the OS - no time to download the patch).

7) Install your software, and you should be ready to go

Asmodean

	16-12-2003 17:58									#58
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Dissidident, are you in the USA? If you are, here is the way to upgrade over the next year. This way you end up with both a W98SE machine for your legacy games, and a Windows XP machine for the new stuff.

Get on OfficeMax's mailing list, and periodically check out techbargains and xpbargains, both .com sites. Watch the site pricewatch.com so you can get a good feel for the price of various components, and visit Sharkey's to make certain you get quality components.

Watching OfficeMax, Staples, Compusa, TigerDirect, and BestBuy (Circuit City doesn't seem to have that good a set of bargains any more). Purchase your components only when rebated down to under half price or nothing. You can pick up 256 MB DDR Ram for $10 or free (actually about $3 with tax and postage). I'm running 768 MB in my XP machine. It's not butt-kicking fast memory, but it cost me a total of under $10 - tax and postage.

Right now Officemax has a $30 rebate on $150 online purchases. Order the 120MB sale hard drive, add enough of the free with rebate items to take it to $150, apply your $30 rebate and you end up paying $30 for the entire order, plus tax. If they are out of the items to pad your order, wait they'll do it again sometimes in the next three months. Or you can combine the big hard drive with the next CD-R drive special at $10 with rebates, that way you have both, total price $40. It may take several months to get that combo, but hey, you've got a working machine.

TigerDirect has some of the best rebarte offers on cases and video cards, so does ComputerGeeks without the rebates. Watch their sales, and use Sharkey's to determine which are quality. Remember, the AMD processors give you more bang for the buck, but you MUST buy a better/larger power supply with the case. You can often purchase a video card that is two generation old for under $60, which will run any game played here great.

Purchase your MB and processor using Pricewatch, going to combo purchases. The pricing "sweet spot" should be fairly obvious, right now it's with the AMD XP at over 2000 mhz! Some of the companies use bait and switch tactics, it's obvious who they are once you get to their site. I like the AMD XP processors, when you order (it should be the last item you purchase due to prices continuously dropping) make sure they include a quality cooling fan. Do NOT try to run this using your W98SE, it's not compiled for the instruction set on the AMD XP or Pentium 4, they can actually run slower on W98SE than the earlier processors. You also may be able to get a bundled OEM version of Windows XP pro with the motherboard, this is often your cheapest alternative.

I run both W98 and XP on my home network. I'm eventually going to bite the bullet and learn Linux. Good luck.

	16-12-2003 18:04									#59
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some of the best retailers found on price watch are ebuyer.com and newegg.

	16-12-2003 18:20									#60
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if you're going to learn linux:

if you just want a linux box that works, go with redhat fedora, or mandrake. stay away from things like lindows, because you won't learn anything about how to work linux at all, and because it's really just a lobotomized version.

http://fedora.redhat.com
http://www.mandrakesoft.com


if you really want to know what goes on in the box, try slackware, gentoo, or linux from scratch. debian would be nice, but all too often the common response to a query is RTFM, n00b. that said, debian is a nice system. it's the community that stinks.
slackware is one of those systems which just works--but it's not going to hold your hand like fedora will. gentoo is much more friendly than linux from scratch, but it is largely a commandline and self-driven distribution: you have to know what you want it to do, and you have to go and install it with the ebuilds. linux from scratch will teach you a lot about how linux works... but it's easily the most difficult and time-consuming of the lot.

www.debian.org
www.slackware.com
www.gentoo.org
www.linuxfromscratch.org

if you want just isos of linux, there's
www.linuxiso.org