15-12-2003 05:21									#1
	C3C MP Strategy Tips (for newbies!) Increase the size of your Attachments

I am going to play in one of the tournaments at some point, but I am generally clueless about MP.

There haven't been any MP strategy threads in the last 60 days, including (obviously) any about C3C.

Anybody want to throw out some tips?

	15-12-2003 06:19									#2
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Well, I may end up belaboring the obvious....

1. Humans are much more aggressive
I've already adapted after just a few games to building my military a little bit stronger than I would have if I was facing AI. The human player will come after you. Expect an archer rush (or the equivalent) every time. I plan on it, and if I don't get a rush, I use my military very aggressively. It seems there are no builders in these MP games.

2. Be willing to adjust your playstyle
I guess I got a little complacent always playing against the AI. I used pretty much the same strategy regarding new city build queues. Throw that out the window. Human players try outrageous gambits to gain advantage. You really have to try your best to identify someone's "true movements" and devise counter-strategies. This part is the awesome part of MP.

3. Watch out for cheating
If you don't know folks that you are playing with, they may be using MSN or Yahoo messenger to coordinate strategy, share info, etc. Its hard to detect that and be sure its going on, but apparently its a big problem. I still don't understand the allure of cheating...maybe I'm old fashioned, but what's the point of cheating? I mean, you didn't really win if you cheated, now did you? /editorial off

Well, it doesn't really matter what I think...it's out there.

4. Ignore the chatting...well, most of it
One guy I was playing against tried so hard to mislead me regarding "facts" of the game. He would warn me of barbs when there were none, tell me he wasn't sending troops, but would. I actually kinda enjoyed this interplay...its not too much different that the intelligence and counter-intelligence operations in the real world. I ended up frustrating him by playing his own strategy back to him. Neither of us could trust the other...a standoff. This defintely adds another dimension to the game.

5. Establish embassies
Do this with as many players as you can. The information changes more rapidly in this game, and once again, the AI predictability is in a game long ago.

6. Rush builds - it cuts both ways
Rush builds, and all those other tricks we all use, well, of course, now your opponent is using those strategies as well. I detected a smarter use of trade that included paying a steeper price in gold, etc. for something that fit the opponents strategy. Bluffing, the appropriate use of it, can yield you more than you would have thought in negotiation. A lot of times, guys want a particular scientific advance. If you got it, people come a-knocking to your door. But you got to trade quick! Tech whoring takes on a whole new level in this game. At least before you had one turn to go around calmly to each civ trying to extract top dollar. No such luxury in multiplayer.

7. Wonders less important
I hesitated putting this here...because I may change my mind once I get more experience. It seems that multiplayer is more militarily combative. Many wonders are for cultural and peace, etc. No one seems to care too much about any particular wonder except for Zeus, Knights Templar, Sun Tzu and Leo's. It must be the military connection.

Conclusion
Like I said, I'm new to multiplayer, so I'm sure there will be some disagreement with what I posted here. Its based on a grand total of three multiplayer games with players I didn't know (not counting the first multiplayer tournament game I played today). I'm actually hoping to see someone point out things I've missed or corrections.

Edited for my impeccable, flawless grammar and spelling.

Last edited by Shogun Gunner on 15-12-2003 at 06:26

	15-12-2003 10:23									#3
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That all happens in a couple of hours?

	15-12-2003 10:59									#4
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Point seven is very important. Zeus is huge, and some other military wonders are good, but most wonders aren't worth the time it takes to construct them. GL is sometimes worth it in a game with a good number of opponents.

	15-12-2003 18:55									#5
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Theseus, there is the possibility that the game would go past a couple of hours...especially on a medium to large map.

The games I've played have all been small maps. Those still took several hours.

I believe there is a way to save the game and start it up at a later time. I haven't tried that yet....

	15-12-2003 19:47									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner I believe there is a way to save the game and start it up at a later time. I haven't tried that yet....

Yes, my current Tournament (round one) has gone into overtme. We will be continueing it tonight by loading the save. It works the same way as starting a new MP game, but you load the saved game.

	17-12-2003 04:58									#7
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I started Civ3 MP yesterday and had some short games,...
What do you built in your citys?
I built at first a granery than temple than barrak, what should i built next? Aqueduct?
How is your invention tree? First Monarchie or first Construction? How do i get really big citys i realized that my citys grow too slow.
When do you built markets? Just in citys with high income or at the sziese of ... ? When do you use courthouses? When academies?
Markets and acadamies after aueducts?
How do you speed up science? Just with roads?
Do you built roads when you have built almost all citys, or during the city building process?
When do you built farms and mines? At the earlie beginning or is settling mor eimporatant?
Does the citysziese have importance for the science production (with a academie) like in ctp?
Im sure ill have more questions tomorrow
Snd me a note if you want to play!
Thanks for answers

greetings filix

Last edited by filix on 17-12-2003 at 05:12

	17-12-2003 21:21									#8
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It seems to me that most MP strats are derived from RTS games like the C&C series, War/Starcraft, etc....the whole idea of the rush attack (zerging with archers! LOL!) to me smacks of that genre more than Civ...I frankly don't like it...those games bore me almost immediately, as it becomes a "who can get to the uber unit first" and run them all over the other guy...*yawn*...IMO and play style, that is not civ anymore. I will stick to playing with the wife and the AI.

	17-12-2003 22:31									#9
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Hmmm.....don't remember the last time I saw an archer rush in MP - and I play numerous games a week.

	17-12-2003 23:45									#10
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Really, interesting...considering all the threads on the subject.

Whatever....

	17-12-2003 23:56									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Hrafn It seems to me that most MP strats are derived from RTS games like the C&C series, War/Starcraft, etc....the whole idea of the rush attack (zerging with archers! LOL!) to me smacks of that genre more than Civ...I frankly don't like it...those games bore me almost immediately, as it becomes a "who can get to the uber unit first" and run them all over the other guy...*yawn*...IMO and play style, that is not civ anymore. I will stick to playing with the wife and the AI.

The problem is that there are played small maps with a lot of players so you need to pull out a lot of units.
I dont like c&c or warcraft eighter.

I played civ1 on my amiga too

Nobody has tipps for civ3?

	18-12-2003 00:05									#12
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quote: It seems to me that most MP strats are derived from RTS games like the C&C series,

I'm not sure this is entirly fair. RTS games are won and lost by the speed of your mouse clicker. In sim moves civ everyone has the same number of turns so it is purely down to what you do with them. If you get rolled over by a archer rush then you should have built more defense. Walls will make a mockery of any archer rush.

quote: as it becomes a "who can get to the uber unit first" and run them all over the other guy

Maybe we play differently but this is exactly what I do when I get the miltary advantage, even in SinglePlayer. Many an enemy has been crushed beneath my cavalry because I got there first.

SG made some very good points above. Building a large military is much more important.

Filix, many of the SP strategys discussed in the strategy forum also apply to MP. I would suggest starting there for many of your questions.

	18-12-2003 00:10									#13
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Don't get me wrong - many MP games do turn into a bloodbath and it is definitely different than SP.

Actually, I WISH someone would archer rush me! Archer rushes in MP are easily thwarted; that's why you don't see them often.

The tactics necessary to defeat a good MP player are much more evolved than what you can get away with with the AI. It isn't just as simple as blindly sending lotsa units.

	18-12-2003 00:48									#14
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I guess for me, I just like to almost role play the part of the leader of my civ...making a bee line for cav (or whatever) in every game makes me lose interest in playing. I like to build up slowly and then make a nice massive army to crush my enemies--sometimes it is in ancient times, sometimes much later...that depends on how the game goes--and there is the hook...it is different most of the time. That is why I have been playing the game for over a decade (what, 13 years now...that is older than my daughter!)...and I started before that with the board game.

	20-12-2003 18:48									#15
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If you are having trouble with your firewall, you might want to try direct IP games. Its not a surefire solution, but can help in some cases.

What you need to do is get your IP from www.whatismyip.com and give it to the person you want to join the game. You then host a game and launch with only yourself in it. The other player then clicks direct IP in the lobby. They then put the number in and can try to connect directly to your window. You can't find out their ping so only give your number to people you know have low pings.

Not really a strategy, but useful for newbies just the same.

Also, does anyone else put their cities directly on special resources? It means that city can never be cut off from that resource and makes it harder for other players to pillage your network. I don't really bother when I am playing SP as there is no threat, but almost always do it when in MP.

	23-12-2003 18:01									#16
	Re: C3C MP Strategy Tips (for newbies!) Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Theseus I am going to play in one of the tournaments at some point, but I am generally clueless about MP.

Yeah I'm thinking about joining one of the tournements too. Although I'm a bit overwhelmed by the whole mulitplayer thing. I have fast internet but have a firewall and am clueless about how to even go about starting a MP game. I tried to join a game through the program you get with the game but the people in the chat room were a bunch of a**holes.

Also is it true that in MP everyone pillages the hell out of each others land...

	23-12-2003 19:25									#17
	Re: Re: C3C MP Strategy Tips (for newbies!) Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by OPD I tried to join a game through the program you get with the game but the people in the chat room were a bunch of a**holes. Also is it true that in MP everyone pillages the hell out of each others land...

It's just like anything else in life - there are nice people and there are jerks. The problem is that you get some moron 12-year olds who think it's cool to sit there and cuss and irritate people. However, there are also many mature, helpful people in the MP lobby (you get there by choosing the MP option on your main menu). If you have questions about joining games or whatever, just ask. I'm sure someone will be helpful and answer your questions.

With regard to pillaging, that is one strategy that is sometimes used. To say "everyone" and "always" is stretching it a bit. There are strategies to counteract a pillaging strategy though. Remember, these are thinking humans you're playing against - not a stupid AI. This is why I personally love playing MP - the challenge is so much greater.

Believe me, there are a lot of very nice people in the MP community of all age ranges. I know some players who are over 60 years old! Come back and give it a try; first impressions sometimes are deceiving.