15-12-2003 21:20									#31
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So if rah's invited too, then the OT will be horrible that night.
Unless UR is on Christmas cover. (He gets double time)

	15-12-2003 22:46									#32
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Western countries should try to spread democratic ideology throughout the world

there are 41 in favour of this, and 18 against this. Quite alarming result.

Why should the western countries spread democratic ideology throughout the world? Is it common belief, that since you are under democracy, that it must be the best form of government for everyone?

Force-feeding of ideologies is very bad. Just like force-feeding religion, which was done in the dark ages.

Changing the governmental style always hurt the people, wheter it's done by the people itself or by some other power. But I think it's much better to start the change among the people, and not by some external force. Only then the change will be true and justified.

Well, I may be wrong, but I'm strongly against this clause.

	15-12-2003 23:00									#33
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quote: Originally posted by aaglo Changing the governmental style always hurt the people, wheter it's done by the people itself or by some other power. But I think it's much better to start the change among the people, and not by some external force. Only then the change will be true and justified.

I precisely we should spread the values of democracy in the peole's heads through suble means, rather than through weapons. It is especially important in this age, when obscurantists with an agenda try to spill their poison on the whole world' minds.

	15-12-2003 23:03									#34
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Well, yes. 'Spreading the ideology' has several levels...

And I'm against the tough end of the spectrum.

	16-12-2003 00:20									#35
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I voted the same as Drogue, except for abortion rights, but we have different premises for our opinions there.

	16-12-2003 00:37									#36
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Government needs to do more to redistribute wealth- Mostly infrasturcture and services, less direct welfare.

Government needs to take over some things that are done by the private sector- for sure. 'Government' is rather vague, though. Government-owned companies, that is.

Government should regulate the private sector more- For sure, esp. in issues like safety, and the enviroment.

Government should do more to protect the environment- Deforestation, water and ground pollution, and the loss of open spaces being the most important issues.

The government needs to further separate itself from religion- The government needs to further separate itself from stupidity.

The death penalty should be used under some circumstances-
I am not sure that I see a possible use for the death penalty, but there is always the chance that there will be a case in which it will be the best answer. Well, psychopaths maybe such case.

Abortion rights should be limited- They should be limited and equalized for both genders.

Western countries should try to spread democratic ideology throughout the world- No doubt about it. Just because people are in a different country, doesn't mean that it's ok that they'd live in a dictatorship, be abused because of their status, etc.

Government should allow civil unions only- I'll leave marriage for the straights. . Seriously, basically it's the same thing, ain't it? For me, marriage is between two people of the opposite sex. That about sums it. If gay people want to enjoy long term institutionalized relationships, I have no problem with that. It's just a definition thing for me.

Gay couples should be allowed to adopt- Of course! And should fit the same criteria straight have to. The sexual relationship between the parents doesn't matter, at all. ( This goes for all households, gay or straight. )

	16-12-2003 00:51									#37
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Not trying to offend anybody, but...

Why do people think, that people should strive for democracy? After all, the secret of democracy is to make people think that they have the power.

How many people here can actually say, that they can make the difference in politics?

It is actually quite frightening to let the people decide on some important issues, because I know how stupid people can be.

I've lived only under 'democracy', so I really cannot say that some other form of government is worse. And besides, are people really made to rule via democracy? Where's the prove, that democracy is the way to go?

So, what makes democracy so much superior compared to other forms of ruling? I think that sometimes it's better for people to have a strong leader to say what to do.

I got it! it grants one extra commerce per tile (where commerce exists)....

	16-12-2003 01:13									#38
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aaglo: I know what you mean, but that strong leader is only better when he's benevolent, and even that's not always correct ( for example, if he's benevolent and stupid, that won't do much good ) .

Democracy isn't just elections: Democracy is Liberty and Equality.

	16-12-2003 01:20									#39
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Well, yeah. But democracies can also have benevolent and stupid leaders... which actually could fit (with some force used) to GWBush...

So, Democracies can make bad decisions too

But Democracy has also the freedom of speech... but is that so necessary after all?

	16-12-2003 02:13									#40
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on wealth distribution: I'm with Drogue on this one... the government shouldn't take wealth and simply give it to others, the government should only tax enough to support public programs like education, health care, perhaps even transportation, energy, and telecommunications. The government should work with the private sector. Whoever can do the job for the least amount of money with a certain level of quality should allowed to do the work. But I do believe the tax code should be progressive. I would like to see less of a focus on complicated corporate tax codes and more of an emphasis on taxing capital and high income. I would set the minimum taxable amount slightly above what would be considered a "livable wage". People who make less than the livable wage shouldn't be taxed at all.

	16-12-2003 03:17									#41
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Democracy is power by the people, for the people, hence "demo", literally, people government. All the rest is consequential.

	16-12-2003 03:43									#42
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Good thread idea.

Loks like there are quite a number of lefties here.

Asmodean

	16-12-2003 12:22									#43
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voting complete

	16-12-2003 12:55									#44
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my votes are for "the government", not "the united states government". i don't trust that thing farther than i can throw a wad of cash.