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Bonaparte
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Quiet! I'm in a spyder hole in Pennsylvania
Nov 2002
time: 00:32
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...I do have a few complaints. Now I'm not writing this for everyone to use as an excuse to jump down my throat because, as I said, I do like C3C.
Some of the aesthetic things about C3C are gone as far as games that are made with the editor are concerened. The aerial view is gone, the palace is gone, and the space race menu is gone. Now these aren't necessary in order to play the game, but they did round out the game a little. They should have expounded on these features instead of eliminating them...hopefully Civ 4 will "fix" this.
Oh, the UN wonder doesn't seem to do a darn thing either in C3C games made with the editor also...wonder why?
Everything else has been done pretty good including how the AI reacts. Although there are still a few problems with it. For instance, if an AI civ already likes you and you do not involve yourself with that AI civ that eventually relations should drop to a neutral level and should not go below that neutral level unless you do something to tick that AI civ off, and the reverse should be true, if an AI civ already doesn't like you and you do not involve yourself with that AI civ that eventually relations should raise up to a neutral level. This isn't the case they usually always end up disliking you. Another thing, it's easy to tick off the AI, but difficult to get back onto there good side, and they hold grudges way to long.
Now here is a little example of what happened in my last game...I was on good terms with Spain and recently ended a war with Portugal. Spain declared war on Portugal abouth 5 turns after my war and then 5 turns after that they asked for my help in fighting Portugal. As I was on good terms with Spain I agreed and helped them. Many turns later on during the game I asked Spain for mutual protection and they said "no way - we remembered what you did to Portugal" - Now I can see that reaction if I asked another AI civ for mutual protection, but I should not have gotten it from Spain.
Basically what I am saying is that I hope Civ 4 will add back and add to some of the little things that made the game a little more fun and I hope they make the AI better than it is.
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Civ Old Timer
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Canada
Mar 2002
time: 21:32
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I like C3C too, but...
The epic game feels different... like the values attached to things has been tinkered with... at lot.
I played the Rise of Rome 2x, didn't win either time, but had a real good time the 2nd time around.
When I tried to play a random game things started out realy well - good start locations, quick expansion through exploration and warfare against weak opponents.
Then the problems begin. I usually play as a Monarchy, but was never crippled by corruption like I am now. I get the Forbidden Palace built in a good location but I'm usually dead or dying before I can get the Capital moved. Never made it out of the middle ages... in either game. In PtW I was winning regulalry at Regent and considering trying Monarch level (again). Now, unless I learn what's new, I can't compete on Regent.
I know that the upgrade costs have changed quite a bit; it's more expensive. What I want to know is, has the corruption model changed and if so, how? Has the number of units a Monarchy can support been reduced? Have the costs for early improvements been raised? I build a few barracks, maybe in 1/3 to 1/2 of my cities, and I put temples everywhere to unify my border and keep riots down. I build marketplaces in my core, uncorrupt cities. Trade agreements are hard to come by, and after the opening few moves, no one will trade tech with me. At after starting the game at 70% tech, I'm rapidly behind.
I also notice that defenders don't seem to defend very well anymore. My early attcks succeeded too well, and once that easy civ is gone and my newly held, corrupt cities come under attack by a better opponent, I can't defend them (even with same era units). The units I do build loose more than I'm used to, and I can't even build them in numbers because I'm broke, my science output is at now only 50% and dropping like a stone.
Basically, I find myself at #7 in production and #7 literacy, in a seven civ game. The units don't attack or defend in the same way (tactics are different too but that's fine, it's combat resolution I want to know about), and I'm stumped about what I need to change in order to compete.
I haven't tried it, but a change in government to Feudalism or Republic doen't seem like the answer.
Please don't say "try a game on chieftain." The learning curve probably isn't that deep. I just can't seem to find documentation about the new models involved.
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CyberChrist
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Denmark
Jan 1970
time: 05:32
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Aerial view is still there.
Palace is still there.
Building Space Ship is still there (or am I missing your point?).
UN wonders still allows you to hold elections(and win).
Maybe some or all of these features have been disabled in some scenarios, but they are still all present in the epic game.
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15-12-2003 09:43
Killed that idea quick.
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