16-12-2003 00:07									#1
	suggestion on 'build often flags' Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I recently posted a thread asking some questions about the ‘build often’ options that each CIV has. During those questions I made remarked having the ‘build often’ for ‘workers’ flagged for every CIV – in the same manner that production and trade were in PTW.

There seemed to be a very positive response to this from at least 2 of the current panel members. However, this caused me to pause for a moment and consider something that I had not previously. I do not know if the AU panel has in the past already addressed the issue I will now raise. If so, just let me know.

The issue is a follows:

I went into the editor and found that there were many CIVs that already had numerous ‘build often flags’ in many areas (sometimes as many as 4 or 5), but not in production and trade. If one were to add these areas as ‘build often’, and now possibly the worker flag as well, you could easily end up with a CIV that has 7, 8 maybe even more of the ‘build oftens’ flagged.

Logic dictates, that the more of these areas that are flagged the more negligible will be the overall effect of flagging them. The results could be a greater unbalancing between AI CIVs in favor of those that have fewer ‘flags’. Those with the fewer flags would then become the only ones that truly accrue the benefits of the production/trade/worker flags. A second effect could be that the overall benefits of the ‘build often’ are made negligible for every CIV, and negate the attempt to try and increase AI shield production.

I believe that the AU panel will have to take this into consideration, and perhaps create a ‘cap’ limit on how many flags any given CIV will be given. This may entail having to re-consider some of the ‘build often’ flags that were left in place in PTW, or even a more comprehensive review of every CIV to avoid excessive flagging in areas that have some duplication. For example; happiness and culture or trade and wealth.

I may be completely off on this one – just let me know.

Sincerely,

Ision

	10-01-2004 00:48									#2
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It may be possible to use flavors on specific buildings (factories, for example) to eliminate some of the build-often flags (production). Flavors might also serve us well to prevent the AI from building so may Wonders at the expense of expansion, or to influence AI Wonder selection depending on civ traits.

I'll open a AU mod thread on AI build priorities soon.

	10-01-2004 02:10									#3
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Long time lurker, forget my old username cause I havn't played Civ3 in a few months until I just got C3C last month, so just made a new one today. I had completely forgotten that I had used AU mod back when I played before, and was directed over here by someone on the Civfanatics forums when I asked a question about build often orders and my memory was refreshed.

Anyway, I await this thread anxiously, as I think the flavours/build often orders are the biggest factors in aiding the AI in making sound production decisions, which in my opinion are really the foundation for a challenging game without insane AI bonuses.

One thing I have found, when I play I make it so I choose what each city builds after completion of the project, but I still set the governor up to what I like to build, like production, trade, offensive/defensive units, science, etc...I have many things selected as "Often" and the rest as never as I will choose those manually.

Seems to me, that the governor many times picks what I want, about 75% of the time actually, which is pretty darn good, it always trys to build some spearmen till there are two in each city, but if I am in monarchy he will try to make a third, but soon as I am at two or three, he will try to build a temple, or a library or whatever, things that I think are necessary to build.

Anyway my point is this, I don't necessarily think that having too many build often items checks is bad because it just makes sure the AI builds those important buildings/units before selecting something less important. By checking multiple often orders, you are just insuring that those things are built before the unchecked items, like air, naval, and artillary units and the more things that are unchecked, the more your leaving up to the somewhat random and misguided AI. Though I don't know how this affects worker and settler production if they are left unchecked or if checked, which I can only imagine is of great importance.

Well, I may be way off base with a lot of what I think, and as I said above, can't wait to hear what people have to say on this issue.

Rellin

Last edited by Rellin on 10-01-2004 at 02:21

	10-01-2004 06:51									#4
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Who the heck were you, Rellin?

Thanks for bringing this up, Ision... I was going to do so myself this weekend. I think that the flavors / build often stuff represents some of the most important things we need to work on for the AU Mod. More so than some of the pretty dramatic possible changes than have been discussed, btw.