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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:32
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Baldwin City - a local minister dressed up as Santa last year and went to a school to hand out presents and he asked children what Christmas meant, and a child stood and said, Jesus birthday. OUCH! Enter the Kansas ACLU...we can't have that!
"How would a Buddhist or Muslim child answer that question"?
That was the rationale from an ACLU rep...
Well, I'd hope they would say the same thing. Of course, if they're ignorant because the ACLU doesn't want children to be taught the basis for religious holidays when the holidays are Christian, they won't know that. What would a Muslim child say if I asked for the meaning of Ramadan?
I don't know, I was sent to public schools in the USA...? Well, no, I'm sure children are being taught about Ramadan...
Carry on wayward son...
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:32
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Discussing the origin of religious holidays is not the same as endorseing a religion.
Last edited by Oerdin on 16-12-2003 at 06:08
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Berzerker
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topeka, kansas,USA
May 1999
time: 23:32
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I agree Jesus probably wasn't born on Dec 25th, highly unlikely in fact, say 1/365 chance without even considering Jewish practices concerning cleanliness, i.e., the proper time of the year to conceive, which also lead us away from a December birth, but nonetheless, it is the day adopted for the celebration. And since we don't know what day he was born, any day is as good as another, especially considering other traditions of the time, 3 days after the winter solstice makes as much sense as any other day. But to say "it" doesn't even belong in school is going too far, after all, the kids are getting 2 weeks off because of "it". 
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orange
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It doesn't matter what your name is!
Feb 2000
time: 00:32
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quote:
And since we don't know what day he was born, any day is as good as another, especially considering other traditions of the time, 3 days after the winter solstice makes as much sense as any other day. But to say "it" doesn't even belong in school is going too far, after all, the kids are getting 2 weeks off because of "it". |
Kids are not getting 2 weeks off to celebrate the birth of Christ. If it was truly about that, they'd be getting off for the few days surrounding it and that's it. Why two weeks - because it's a part of Western Culture. The winter holiday, while dressed up as a time of religious worship, is really just an age old tradition that got dolled up by the Church to be acceptable and to discourage the drunken orgies that used to accompany this time period.
quote:
Because the school seemingly can't? Seriously, what's the big deal? A local minister hands out gifts dressed as Santa and people object to him asking why Christmas is observed but not that he's handing out gifts dressed as Santa? |
The school shouldn't be able to project a holiday or a religion onto the children, no. A local *minister* coming in to a public school asking children about the celebration of Christmas is not necessary in a school environment. Further, it marginalizes those children who are not religious, or Christian, and don't celeberate Christmas.
What I find ever more ironic is that the minister dresses up as SANTA CLAUS to talk about the TRUE meaning of Christmas. Give me a break. 
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So schools shouldn't teach the origins of the various main religions? That leaves a pretty big gap in their educations... Of course mysticism will be part of such a discussion, many religions have their origins shrouded in mystery or miracles, that doesn't mean children can't still learn about them. |
They should. But if they're going to do it, they should do it factually. That's kinda what a school is for, or so I'm told.
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You really think elementary school kids are going to understand that? |
Well instead we should lie to them about Santa Claus giving presents to everyone in the world, Jesus being born in a manger on Dec. 25th in the year 0, and Christianity being the accepted religion of the nation as evidenced by public schools. Muucccch better 
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This loses sight that Christmas is essentially a Christian holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, doesn't it? |
Well of course, that's what it is ideally. But what is it really? Modern commercialism with strong roots in paganism. The main point is that there is no reason that Santa Claus should be speaking on any religion - he's not a figure representative of Jesus Christ's birth, he's a modern invention and bastardization of the St. Nicholas of lore. If he wants to be in a school handing our presents - fine. He can leave religion at the door.
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16-12-2003 04:31
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