16-12-2003 12:48									#1
	In Love with Radar Artillery Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

In C3C, I've discovered that radar artillery can be a lot of fun to play with. They have the speed to keep up with MA blitzes (although not with the longest-range operations of MA armies), and the firepower to reduce even the most potent of defenders to a shadow of their former selves before the MAs (or tanks, or on occasion even cavalry) move in.

Prior to C3C, I didn't like how artillery made a huge mess of the infrastructure of what were about to be my cities. But with artillery in C3C targeting units first, that is no longer a problem. Using a stack of RAs to reduce a city's defenders to one hit point each before the attackers roll (or gallop) in has become an extremely attractive option.

Nathan

	16-12-2003 14:55									#2
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LOL, I like artillery too, but ... (I dont have c3c ... just give me a few months) are you saying that RA has the same movement points as MA and has a targeting priority on defending units?
I've played enough civ3 to have the opinion that the human advantage over the AI when it comes to the application of artillery bombardment makes wars too easy.
Now - reading that c3c allows units to be targeted first - I wonder if the AI's *tendency to build* and *ability to effectively apply* artillery has been improved.
In general, I think the AI's ability to manage its armed forces is an aspect of the game that sorely begs development. The AIs war effectiveness in the game seems to rely mainly on larger numbers (with matching military technology) and even then it sucks at it.
More specifically, too many times I have been attacked by larger AI forces and smoked them simply because I tend to have a sufficient amount (25) of artillery and I can very effectively micromanage their use. This ability is enhanced enormously in the presence of a good railroad network. On the offensive too, a stack of infantry with 10 artillery pieces is a deadly porcupine. It provides perfect cover for cavalry units that simply stand around waiting to attack after the artillery have worn down a city's defenses. In one game I took out the Greeks with a stack of 26 catapults and 10 swordsmen (with a few other swordsmen spread around) - and we all know how impossible those hoplites are early in the game.
Yes, totally agree, it's a lot of fun using artillery; but my point is that the AI just can't use artillery like that, and the situation is therefore heavily lopsided in favour of the human player. So I am shocked to read that it may have become even more lopsided. I wish it were otherwise but I don't blame Firaxis at all . The amount of work required to improve that AI characteristic might be asking waay too much.

	16-12-2003 19:06									#3
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quote: are you saying that RA has the same movement points as MA and has a targeting priority on defending units?

RA has 2 moves, and range of 2. So it can move 1 tile into enemy territory, and then fire 2 tiles deep - the same effective range as a MA. And yes, in C3C, artillery will target units first.

-Arrian

	16-12-2003 21:05									#4
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Artillery has always been great (at least for the Human player.) Now with the tageting of units first, it's even better--for the Human player. The AI still can't use it effectively.

I usually wind-up militarily behind most of the AIs, but w/ Arty stacks, I can stave-off an invasion even if I have no Rubber. Arty SOD's have kept me in the game when--due to lack of resources--I might have been easily reduced to nothingness.

Arty still rocks!!! Perhaps now even more so.

Oh, and when upgraded to RA with the extended reach.... Woah Baby!!!

* steven8r starts humming, "Radar (Artillery) Love"

Last edited by steven8r on 16-12-2003 at 21:22

	16-12-2003 22:44									#5
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The trebuchet is also an excellent unit.

	17-12-2003 11:12									#6
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Radar Artillary is great but combine it w/ Stealth Bombers & thats a sight to behold

	17-12-2003 21:29									#7
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The change in radar artillery from PtW allowing it a movement of two, has vastly improved it. (When it was a single movement unit I was constantly yelling at my monitor, “Oh c’mon, the **** thing has wheels !” The problem in the modern era is once I had MA, I dropped any sort of artillery supported attack strategies because arty was far too slow in keeping up with the advancing front. I wouldn’t mind to much if cruise missiles were up a movement point as well.