17-12-2003 16:34									#1
	OCC Comparison game #3 Full PM-box? Change here!

Since it looks highly unlikely that I shall receive the only succession game I'm involved in before Christmas while I've got loads of Civ time on my hands every evening, I decided to launch another OCC comparison.
This ought to keep me out of mischief in that time though. It all came about as a result of my downloading Underdark to take home, and it not working properly. So, I thought of playing a quick OCC and put some starts together. This baby (about the twenty fifth) is very promising, and should provoke some interesting comparisons between playing styles.

We're the Celts, and start off on a 4-special location:
hidden silk, coal, buffalo and whale if I recall correctly.
I haven't got a screenshot of the start, but there's a hut next to our two settlers, and a far amount of river.
Intriguingly, though, there is another 4-special site a little further north. This shares the hidden silk and the whale, but also offers two fish. You have the choice of the improved production possibilities of the southerly site, and the quicker start, or of the better growth potential and greater trade of the northerly site. The northerly site would allow a harbour and boats for those who want to trade further afield, but this must be held against the poor production of all the sea squares. I'm afraid that I can't remember whether we start with any techs. Maybe someone could open the save and tell me.
I haven't played this yet, so we're all starting off level.
Just submit as and when you want, with the usual information.

Good luck!

Attachment: cu_b4000.sav
This has been downloaded 10 time(s).

Last edited by duke o' york on 18-12-2003 at 14:18

	17-12-2003 22:58									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I get a "Failure to load" with my Classic/2.42 version, so I guess this must be MPG?

You beat me by a week; I was going to post another OCC start next week just before Christmas. Mine has something like 15 river tiles in a double box shape, with Pheasant and two hidden Silks on rivers, and a bonus Gold. Takes a little time to get to...

	18-12-2003 00:48									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

OK I give up. Whatever happend to OCC #3?

	18-12-2003 01:10									#4
	Tired of ads?

(I think he's counting EL #6 = OCC #3: a few of us played it as OCC)

	18-12-2003 11:30									#5
	Re: OCC Comparison game #4 Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Good luck!

I click on the link to down-load and I finish up at ebay. Has the service been "improved"?

RJM at Sleeper's

[/EDIT] OK - I've got it now. [/EDIT]

	18-12-2003 14:26									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Oops.
I've changed the title to my first post, but we'll need mod help to change the title of the thread.


Sorry, it is MGE, so if someone can convert it then I'd be most grateful. I've got Classic, but not with any patches, at home, but don't know how to change the files over. If someone could change the file, post it here and then explain to me how it's done then that would be even better!

I didn't play any of this last night I'm afraid, but should get a start this evening. Hopefully people will need a quiet hour or two to themselves over the Christmas period and will take full advantage by playing a few turns of OCC.

	18-12-2003 18:41									#7
	Tired of ads?

Another urban legend, duke.

MGE can read Classic files but C cannot read M. There is no way to change an MGE game so that Classic will run it. You will get the "This is not a save file. Will not load" box.

Sorry. But, this will make for a more challenging game.

Patch your Classic game.

Monk

	18-12-2003 19:03									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Direct me to the patches and I may well do, but I'm not interested in playing it. I've got MGE and that's suitable for all my Civving needs at the moment. In fact, as I've said elsewhere, I've got Civ 2 on Playstation too, so that's three copies!

	18-12-2003 20:45									#9
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

So it is an MGE OCC -- now that we're all handicapped to JRabbit's environs, it will be a fairer comparison for him.

	18-12-2003 20:53									#10
	Increase the size of your Attachments

The ideas of posting comparison games in 2.42 was to be inclusive, not to make it easier. Once again I will have to lurk from the sidelines, as I am forced to do in all the sucession games as well.

I have been actively looking for MGE for Mac for about two months now. There was one copy on ebay three weeks ago but I was outbid. If anybody has any hints I would be most welcome.

	18-12-2003 21:12									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Find the person who outbid you and subject them to some rigourous constructive criticism, with a whole gang of crusaders!

Sorry to have posted the save in MGE.
I didn't think about the differences, and it wasn't a pre-planned comparison anyway - just something that came to mind when I was fiddling around to find an appropriate starting point. Hopefully the MGE-only won't mean that far fewer people play this, but I apologise to those left out.

	18-12-2003 22:25									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york Direct me to the patches and I may well do, but I'm not interested in playing it.

Having a game without its patches is like getting a new suit off the rack and not having it altered to fit...somewhat.

So, just for you, this is thru google for Civ2. Move down the page to patches/updates and click 2.42. OCC or SXN will get a wider range of players under 2.42; it is not about making it harder.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2downloads.shtml

Happy Holidays....

Monk

	19-12-2003 00:38									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Grigor,

I might be able to locate a copy of MGE for the MAC for you. I sent a copy to my nephew as a present a few years back, but since he has converted from MAC to PC, he will no longer need the MAC disc. If he hasn't lost it or thrown it away, I will ask him to mail it to you. All I need is a mailing address from you, if you care to email it to me.

2.42 users,

I have just finished my game using MGE, landing in 1827, (1826 save is attached, log will come later) so now may be able to go back and use the game map to reproduce a start compatible with 2.42. (I have not tried doing this before, but "think" I know how to go about doing this).

This game was interesting, since there was a variety of SSC sites to pick among. I ended up using a different one than either suggested by Duke. Mine had a silk, a hidden silk, a fish, with remaining tiles split among grass and ocean, making every tile suitable for trade. Size 29 was achieved without using farmland.

Attachment: cu_a1826.sav
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	19-12-2003 01:03									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Here is a start compatible with 2.42. Your starting position as the Celts is identical to that in the MGE game. There were some differences among the AI civs, as some were not named or located as I specified on the map. I don't know why some civ names or starting locations were changed, and maybe someone who really knows can clue me in. I did check starting techs, which are roughly the same as in the MGE game. The Celts had none, but all AI had two or more, with one of them even having five or six. This gave the AI a good headstart in this game. I found myself playing catchup for quite awhile.

In any event, 2.42 plays differently than MGE, so even an identical start in every way will not attain parity among game versions. Enough said, so here it is, and enjoy your games:

edited to note that I found a better way. Check for an exact copy of the start a few posts down, if you'd prefer to use it

Attachment: cu_242.sav
This has been downloaded 3 time(s).

Last edited by solo on 20-12-2003 at 06:43

	19-12-2003 03:17									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I have "reverse engineered" starts by using MapEditor to save a copy of the original map with civ locations marked, then retrying the "Start on Premade World" setting until the number of settlers and starting techs are the same as the original. Takes some fiddling in Cheat mode to check things, but I'm doing it for others, not myself.

I think I'll leave this one fallow a couple weeks until I forget your comments on the start, Solo...

	19-12-2003 07:13									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Solo - thanks for the save - I have downloaded it successfully and it looks like a wonderfully enticing OCC game with delicious huts and rivers beckoning me on...

I think I finished in the 19th century exactly once on the old fortnightly OCC series, so 1826 seems pretty spectacular to me.

	19-12-2003 14:30									#17
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Great work solo!

For those wondering about my unpatched Classic, I had the 1996 original but then "misplaced" the CD when my computer gave up. I got a Playstation on the cheap from one of my friends (entirely legitimately, I might add) and noticed Civ 2 in one of the local shops' bargain bin. Needless to say, with fond memories of Civving away in the past, I snapped it up and proceded to lose the next couple of months of my life.
When I moved in with my girlfriend earlier this year, I took advantage of her computer and got Classic on eBay for use while she was out. After I'd already bid for Classic, I noticed MGE at an excellent price so went for that too. I er, got it, and have never looked back. The old harddrive from my computer is probably somewhere on a landfill site in West Yorkshire, with the Civ 2 patches still on it.

Enough twaddle,


SPOILER!!!













4000BC – Chariot from hut. Goes south to find another hut. Settlers go north to seaside location.
3950BC – 50g from second hut.
3850BC – Cardiff founded. Second settler starts to forest the silk square.
3800BC – Ceremonial Burial started. 50g from another hut.
3600BC – Warrior explores to north. 50g from another hut.
3550BC – CB discovered. Alphabet next.
3450BC – Second warrior fortified. Start on Temple.
3300BC – Size 2. Warrior gets barb hoss from hut.
3250BC – Hoss disappears!
3000BC – Choose to ignore a hut. Alphabet discovered. Start on Bronze Working.
2900BC – Temple finished. Back onto warriors until Colossus can be started.
2800BC – Decide what the hell and pop hut to get archer. Warrior pops for 25g.
2700BC – Fiddle workers to get science at 12 turns. My hut luck may well run out soon, as I’m pretty sure that this is a small continent and I’ve covered most of it.
2350BC – Bronze Working! Switch half-built barracks to Colossus, ignoring the shield loss. Start on Code of Laws, and arrange my three workers to give 2 tax, 4 science and 6 production.
1800BC – According to Tacitus, we’re the 6th largest civ in the world!
1750BC – Code of Laws. I think long and hard and plump for Monarchy!
1700BC – Disband homecoming warriors into the Colossus project for massive return of 5 shields! This puts us up to the heady number of 95! Discoveries now at 19 turns though. I have pots of cash, but buying the Colossus is 420g, some way more than the meagre 224g I’m hoarding.
1650BC – Chariot reaches home, and the other warrior is disbanded into the Colossus.
1600BC – Aztecs begin Hanging Gardens.
1400BC – Cost of Colossus down to 260g, I’m holding 240g. Soon, my precious.
1350BC – Aztecs change to Pyramids. I’m 1g short of the price for the Colossus!
1300BC – I buy Colossus and leave 24g in my kitty.
1250BC – Colossus is built, somewhat unsurprisingly, but Monarchy is still a way off.
1050BC – Couldn’t have timed it better! Monarchy in an Oedo year. Research now 11 years.
1000BC – Settler finishes hill mining and now has nothing else to do until RR and refrigeration. I wish they could float and uncover my other two specials!
975BC – America decides the Hanging Gardens is the wonder of choice.
900BC – Aztecs nearly done with the Pyramids.
875BC – Tenochtitlan (at least it’s one of their cities I can spell) builds Pyramids.
825BC – Aztecs think they can build the Gardens too!
800BC – Currency discovered, and the barracks turn into a marketplace. Trade next.
625BC – Grow to size 4.
575BC – Americans nearly done with the Gardens.
550BC – Washington builds the Hanging Gardens of Capitol Hill and the Aztecs think that the Great Wall of Teotihuacan (?) was what they wanted all along. Marketplace completed and I’ll have a single turn of settler use before Trade arrives.
525BC – Trade arrives! I switch to Mapmaking to uncover those other squares and get some of my fancy new caravans shipped out. Americans discover philosophy first and get Trade for free. They start on Marco’s. I know it’ll be a waste, but they wouldn’t listen to me. Wonder where all the barbs are? I need 125g for caravan buying.
400BC – My first van is for food, because I don’t know when the first ship will be ready.
375BC – Aztecs change to Marco’s and finish it straightaway. Yanks go to the Library.
250BC – Next caravan is gold because Washington wants it. Boats very soon.
200BC – Babylon builds Great Library, then has to clean up the wine after some Scousers come to see whether it measures up or not. Yanks switch to Oracle, and Babylonians switch to the Great Wall.
175BC – Map Making discovered. Writing is next.
150BC – Americans switch to Great Wall. First barbs show up, but then head southwards.
100BC – Barb leader disappears. Wine caravan finished and plans are drawn up for the SS Duke.
1AD – HMS Duke is launched to a great celebration, and on its first voyage discovers two shoals of enormous fish. Scientists worry about what else might lurk out there.


Well I'm making quite poor progress, but things will start to improve soon. I was unbelievably lucky with the huts - no rubbish techs and only one barb, who didn't like the look of my mighty warriors lined up on the plains and scarpered! I'm sure that things will get worse before they get better, as my tech is still slow, although this is probably because I'm using the mined hill to build caravans, and then switching to sea for trade only for two turns. It's 9 shields, buy one, 9, buy, 9, 9, 6, 6 - and this doesn't make for very good research, although there are two commodities aboard the trireme heading east, and hopefully they will be demanded and not take too long to find some cities. The rest will be posted on Monday, and if there's no character limit on these posts, I'll just edit it onto the bottom of this.

	19-12-2003 20:40									#18
	Put an end to popups!

Elephant,

I used the map editor and then the "premade world" option, but would not be sure how to proceed after "correcting" things in the cheat menu. If a scenario is created, you'll have an open tech tree, which is an advantage. If not, the cheat flag remains on when creating a save. There must be a way of converting a scenario into a save I am unaware of (unless just renaming the file is all that is required).

Duke,

Our games were very even until you lost out on building MPE. I was able to complete it and take full advantage of the large AI tech lead. I'll post my full log when it is ready.

Last edited by solo on 19-12-2003 at 20:49

	19-12-2003 20:45									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I heard that renaming the file was all that's required

Oops - I'll be told off by Bloody Monk for spreading more urban legends.

Thanks Ming!

	19-12-2003 21:09									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by duke o' york I heard that renaming the file was all that's required Oops - I'll be told off by Bloody Monk for spreading more urban legends. Thanks Ming!

Just trying to be helpful, duke. Don't be spooked.

While it is fascinating to read about your patches being lost on the rubbish tip, the link provided above will fix you up. Get Patched!!

Monk

	19-12-2003 23:21									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

OCC #3, MGE version

For the city site my preference is always for trade arrows over shields. The starting location also lacks access to the ocean, so there’s reduced or no scope for trade or trade route arrows, too. Since it is a large map, we are most likely to be alone on our small home continent.

4000 hut – archer

The archer headed north and quickly bumped into a silk tile, in a very lush area. The city center had coastal access and shared the hidden special used by Duke. Two silks and a potential city population in the high 20’s made this site just right. A full developed city located on it could maintain a pace of a tech every two turns later in the game.

3800 Cardiff

My other settler worked on the hidden tile, first making a road and then mining it into silk. Once other tiles were roaded and irrigated and the city was really growing, both silk were watered to wheat and irrigated to increase the citizen total to 29. Then they were railroaded and mined back into silk to boost trade arrows to help maintain the pace of a tech every other turn. The site was great in that no engineering work was required. A single settler did it all, even having enough time left over for a nap or two during the game.

3650 hut – archer
3500 Alphabet

On a large map, the tech pace is so slow, I picked Bronze Working next, in order to have something useful to build (the Colossus) while waiting to discover trade.

3150 settlers
3100 hut – barb horseman, it kills my archer, another hut – 25g
2850 warrior
2750 size 2
2700 Bronze Working, settler joins Cardiff, now size 3

Getting an early start on the Colossus allows it to be built without using any cash. Gold saved was used later to help rush MPE.

2250 Ceremonial Burial
1650 Code of Laws
1250 Cardiff attacked by barbs, warrior almost dies when killing barb leader
1200 Colossus
1150 we love begins, allowing more food to be produced
1000 Monarchy
950 revolution
925 temple, government to Monarchy
900 we love resumes to get more trade arrows
875 warrior
750 Currency
725 settler done with roads and irrigation, so it joins city, now size 4
575 Trade, marketplace
450 size 5, hut – nomad
300 hut – 50g
225 Marco Polo’s Embassy

This was completed as soon as I had enough cash to do so. A staggering number of techs were available: Horseback Riding, Literacy, Map Making, Masonry, Mathematics, Pottery, Writing, Construction, Mysticism, Warrior Code, Banking, Iron Working, Philosophy, Republic, Seafaring, Polytheism and The Wheel. When examining the start after completing my game, I noticed that they all started with two or more free techs. The Aztecs started with 5 freebies, including Writing. In MGE the AI are usually faster at learning techs than they are in 2.42, too. Without the accustomed tech advantage, it required some careful trading to obtain the techs I needed.

Babylonians – trade for Mathematics, peace, alliance, Map Making as a gift, share maps
Vikings – trade for Construction & Mysticism, peace, alliance, 50g gift
Carthaginians – war
Mongols – war
Americans – give tech, peace, alliance, 150g gift
Aztecs – trade for Republic & Writing, peace, alliance, no gift

I needed some new techs to make any more trades, but my Pathetic power rating allowed 4 alliances and some gift income.

200 trireme
150 revolution
125 government to Republic, beads, size 6
Carthaginians – peace, trade for The Wheel & Polytheism, alliance, share maps
Mongols – peace, trade for Iron Working, alliance, share maps
Aztecs – trade for Philosophy

Now I had an alliance with every civ. Alliances work differently in MGE than they do in 2.42, since the AI almost always demand a favor whenever contact is made. Refuse them and the alliance is usually dissolved immediately. Since all alliances were worth preserving, it’s necessary to make sure you have an extra tech and more than 50 gold whenever making contact and then to always appease. If they ask for a tech, it’s given and if gold is requested, it is given up. Consequently, an extra tech is needed if you want to trade for one of theirs and a policy of Indian giving will almost always recoup (and often augment) any gold given up to maintain contact and the alliance. A policy of maintaining 6 alliances really pays off in peaceful relations and timely access to needed techs.

50 Americans – give tech, share maps; Vikings – give tech, share maps, 25g gift; beads to Nineveh, 252g

AD years

20 Astronomy
40 silver
80 gold, hut – University, Babylonians – trade for Literacy, 100g gift
100 Americans – trade for Banking, give tech, 75g gift; Carthaginians – give tech, 50g gift; Aztecs – trade for Bridge Building & Seafaring; Mongols – give tech, 25g gift

120 food
140 food
160 size 7, Americans – give tech, 100g gift; Carthaginians – give tech, 50g gift; Mongols – give tech, 25g gift; others - give tech, no gifts

180 food
220 food
240 Carthaginians – give tech, 100g gift
260 food
280 Mongols – give tech, 50g gift
300 food
320 Copernicus’s Observatory, Vikings – give tech, 100g gift; Americans – give 100g, tech, 150g gift

There was a race building Copernicus, since one of the AI started on it before I did. I wasn’t taking any chances and decided to build the wonder before building a library and university.

340 library
380 Vikings – give tech, 100g gift
400 food, Medicine, Vikings – give tech, 50g gift; Carthaginians – trade for Feudalism, 150g gift; Babylonians – give 50g, 200g gift; Aztecs – give tech, trade for Engineering, no gift; Mongols – give tech, 50g gift

420 size 8, Americans – give 100g, trade for Economics, 100g gift
440 food
480 food, Americans – give 100g, 150g gift; gold(d) to Washington, 597g

It took a long time to row this gold half way across the large map to America, but doing so was well worth it. They were also demanding my other cargo, silver.

500 food, Vikings – give tech, share maps
520 food, Theory of Gravity, silver(d) to Chicago, 618g

Now I had a big pile of gold and had finally attained a tech lead, all made possible by these two great trades. Afterwards, my city developed quickly, allowing a very good large map landing date.

560 food
580 food, Chemistry, Carthaginians – give 50g, tech, 100g gift; Mongols – give tech, no gift

600 Shakespeare’s Theater, we love
640 aqueduct, size 9
660 size 10
680 harbor, size 11
700 university, Sanitation, size 12; Aztecs – trade for Navigation, give tech, share maps; Carthaginians – trade for Invention, give tech, 150g gift

720 sewer system, size 13, Aztecs – trade for Physics; Americans – give 50g, tech, 75g gift

740 size 14
760 bank, size 15
780 size 16, Babylonians – give 50g, 200g gift; Vikings – give tech, share maps

I was rated as Inadequate for the rest of the game, making the Vikings my key civ.

800 Democracy, size 17, wine
820 size 18
840 size 19, gems
860 size 20
880 Magnetism, wool, size 21
920 galleon, revolution
940 government to Democracy, Aztecs – give 50g, trade for Steam Engine; Americans – give tech, 200g gift; we love resumes

980 food, size 22
1000 Gunpowder, size 23; Carthaginians – give tech, 50g gift; Americans – give tech, 50g gift

1020 size 24, wine(d) to Tlatelclo, 620g
1040 cloth, size 25, Explosives, gems(d) to Tenochtitlan, 732g
1060 stock exchange, size 26
1080 food, Railroad, size 27, Babylonians – give tech, share maps; Americans – give 50g, tech, 150g gift

1100 food, size 28
1120 food, waiting for irrigation to finish
1140 food, size 29, we love ends
1160 food, Metallurgy
1180 Sir Isaac Newton’s College, wool(d) to Ellipi, 342g
1200 Corporation
1220 factory, Aztecs – trade for Chivalry, give tech, share maps, 25g gift
1240 diplomat, Refining, 2 barb crusaders bribed, 164g
1260 cloth
1280 gold, Electricity, Vikings – give tech, share maps; Americans – give tech, share maps; Carthaginians – give tech, 50g gift; Mongols – give tech, share maps; Babylonians – give tech, 150g gift; Aztecs – give 50g, tech, 50g gift

1320 Combustion
1360 Steel, Mongols – give tech, share maps
1400 Automobile
1420 superhighways
1440 Electronics, diplomat defends vs. 3 barb crusaders; Americans – give 50g, tech, no gift; Aztecs – trade for Conscription, give tech, share maps

1480 Mass Production, Babylonians – give 50g, tech, 150g gift; Aztecs – give tech, 50g gift

1500 mass transit
1510 Atomic Theory, Carthaginians – give tech, share maps

In 1520, the Carthaginians were about to complete Darwin’s so I gifted all tech. Darwin’s gave them Nuclear Fission and Nuclear Power, the latter of which I was able to trade for.

1530 Nuclear Fission
1540 Babylonians – trade for Tactics, give tech, share maps, 150g gift; Carthaginians – trade for Nuclear Power

1550 nuclear plant
1560 Refrigeration, no better choice since the trades upset the tech sequence
1580 Machine Tools
1590 food, cloth(d) to San Francisco, 1276g
1600 food, Laser, Vikings – give tech, share maps
1610 food
1620 food, Miniaturization, Babylonians – give 100g, tech, 150g gift; Aztecs – give 50g, tech, 50g gift

1630 offshore platform
1640 Computers
1650 research lab
1660 food, Flight, Americans – trade for Mobile Warfare
1670 food
1680 food, Radio, Vikings – give tech, share maps
1690 food
1700 food, Robotics
1710 manufacturing plant, finally giving me 54 shields
1720 food, Advanced Flight, Babylonians – give 100g, tech, 200g gift; Vikings – give tech; beads(d) to Samarra, 440g; Aztecs – trade for Communism; Carthaginians – give 50g, tech, 150g gift

1730 food
1740 food, Rocketry
1750 food
1752 food, Space Flight
1754 Apollo Program

I was a little short on freights and cash, so decided to delay building the space ship until fusion was discovered.

1756 beads, Plastics, Vikings – trade for Horseback Riding, give tech
1758 hides
1760 hides, Superconductor
1762 hides
1764 hides, Fusion Power
1766 – 1794 15 structurals
1778 – beads(d) to Tabriz, 604g
1784 – hides x 2 to New York, 378g x 2
1796 C#1
1798 C#2
1800 M#1
1802 C#3
1804 C#4
1806 C#5
1808 C#6
1810 M#2
1812 M#3, launch 15-3-3-1-1-1, eta 1827
1814, 16 & 18 – armor
1820 coastal fortress
1822 SAM missile battery
1826 SDI defense
1827 arrival on Alpha Centauri

	20-12-2003 06:40									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

2.42 users,

I can't stand a mystery, so have worked on the problem of converting MGE saves to 2.42, and finally figured out how to do it. Below is an exact copy of the MGE start which will load with 2.42 for those who would prefer to use it. The process involves creating a scenario which is loaded and saved before making any moves. The scenario flag can be turned off in the resulting .sav file by using a hex editor. (The 21st character in the save file should be changed from hex 80 to hex 00).

Attachment: cu_b4000.sav
This has been downloaded 4 time(s).

	22-12-2003 14:58									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Great news solo.
I'm afraid to report, though, that I've lost my save at 1 AD, and will probably have to start again unless I can find it somewhere. The disk it was on was corrupted, and I only play Civ without installing it on my girlfriend's computer, so I have no automatic bak-ups.
I'll look, but whether or not I find it, the game won't be done by Christmas, and will probably end up being played some time in early January (when I can use my own laptop ). I didn't put a limit on the time for this game, so hopefully others who discovered it late can also join in. Again, all apologies, I'm an .
The (only?) benefit of my replaying in January will be that if I have to start again then I will have forgotten the map and locations of Civs I had discovered by then, so will not have an advantage.

	24-12-2003 19:48									#24
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Duke,

Too bad about the hard drive. I'd bet that something like that will probably happen to me while just on the verge of cracking 500 AD!

I will extend the deadline a month for you and for others who might want to play this one.

	05-01-2004 18:44									#25
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Well it seems as though I'm going to have to start from scratch. Am I expected to try to copy what I did the first time round until 1AD and then continue from there, or can I just start to play afresh? If the former, then I'll go back up and copy and paste what I already posted in this thread, but if not then I shall keep coming to the last post in order to avoid finding out details about the map. Laptop ought to arrive soon though!

	25-01-2004 23:24									#26
	Support Apolyton

OK, I tried an inferior strategy of exploring first. I founded on a 4-special site in the NW of our island in 3250BC. I had no access to water, but was able to buy two barb triremes early on, and although one sank fairly early, the other one lasted to become a nuclear powered trireme. I launched first, but it was late and I launched a 15-1-1-1-1-1 in 1889 and was shocked to see an ETA of 1925. Of course there was no way to keep the AI from getting there first, nor could I even mount an attack against the Babylonians.

In retrospect, the late founding didn't actually slow me down that much, but the lack of access to water negated the nice specials and I was only able to get 2-turn advances about 4 times, and only once from city science alone.