17-12-2003 22:50									#1
	Gay Couple Sue Adoption Agency!!! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

LINKIE-DINKIE

A gay San Jose couple Tuesday sued the nation's leading adoption-related Internet business, contending that it must abide by California anti-discrimination laws and stop barring same-sex couples from posting personal ads seeking birth mothers looking for prospective adoptive parents.
For Rich and Michael Butler, whose commitment to parenthood is so strong they have already turned a bedroom into a powder-blue nursery with puffy white clouds and taken the same last name, the case against Adoption.com has turned into a crusade on behalf of all same-sex couples.
But experts say it could also serve as a wake-up call for Internet companies who wrongly believe they are immune from California law because they are based elsewhere. Officials with Adoption.com, which is based in Tempe, Ariz., contend the firm is subject only to Arizona laws and not a law in California that bars discrimination based on sexual orientation.
``I don't think everyone recognizes it, but it's become clear in recent years that if you are soliciting or doing business in a particular state, you're going to have a very difficult time avoiding that state's laws,'' said David Kramer, an Internet liability expert with the Palo Alto-based firm Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati, which is not involved with the case.
Site's broad reach
Adoption.com did not return a phone call Tuesday from the Mercury News about the suit filed in San Francisco Superior Court. But on its Web site, the company touts itself as the nation's most effective registry for hopeful adoptive parents, who post profiles for a monthly fee in order to find children to adopt. About 20 percent of the site's 250 parent profiles are posted by Californians, according to the lawsuit.
The firm owns more than 1,000 adoption-related Internet domain names, including Birthmothers.com, which help steer pregnant women its way. It has also been featured on national television, ranging from CNN to the former talk show hosted by Rosie O'Donnell, who is a gay rights activist.
But in a letter last year to the National Center for Lesbian Rights, an advocacy group representing the Butlers, Adoption.com attorney and principal Dale Gwilliam said the firm refused to list the Butlers' profile because scientific research has shown children thrive best in a traditional two-parent household.
The letter does not cite any studies, and groups ranging from the Child Welfare League of America to the American Academy of Pediatrics have stated that same-sex couples should not be excluded from adopting.
Certified to adopt
The rejection saddened the Butlers, who have known they would want to eventually raise children since they met nine years ago at a San Mateo roller rink. Their personal Web site, www.butlerfamily site.com, paints a picture of the Bay Area natives surrounded by friends and family, including a 2-year-old nephew. Rich, 31, is a patent attorney and Michael, 37, is a former information services executive who plans to be a stay-at-home dad. The couple own a large home in East San Jose on two-thirds of an acre.
The state certified the couple more than a year ago to adopt a child under 6 months old after they passed the necessary hurdles, including a home study and psychological testing. The Butlers want what is called an ``open adoption,'' meaning they want their child to remain in contact with the birth mother, at least to some extent.
``It's much healthier for the child, so they don't grow up wondering `Why did they place me?' '' Rich Butler said. ``We're really open people and family-oriented, and we thought it was a neat idea to include more people in our family.''
The Butlers' lawsuit also accuses the firm of false advertising because it promotes itself by claiming that ``Diversity is Our Strength.''
Site in minority
Some experts were surprised that Adoption.com will not post gay people's profiles. An increasing majority of adoption agencies now accept applications from same-sex couples, according to a study by the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, a New York-based think tank.
``Adoption.com is flying in the face of prevailing and growing practice,'' said Adam Pertman, author of ``Adoption Nation'' and head of the institute.
But the Anaheim-based Traditional Values Coalition praised the firm for its practice.
``This is just another incremental step on the part of the radical homosexual community to cram down the throats of straight Americans their twisted conception of family,'' said Benjamin Lopez, the group's state lobbyist.
The Butlers are proud of their crusade, which they say has nothing to do with financial or personal gain. By the time the lawsuit is concluded, they hope to have already found little Emily, Nathan, Melissa or Aiden to adopt. But they say they will persist until Adoption.com agrees to post gay people's profiles on their site.
``It's about giving children the right to be in happy, well-adjusted homes,'' Michael Butler said, ``no matter what orientation the couple has.''

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1. Brings this issue to light, which I think is a good thing.

2. Make me wonder how different, if at all, my life would of been had I been raised by a same sex couple.

3. If state laws can cross boarders, what happens if a married couple from Hawaii or where ever else they allow homosexuals to marry move to somewhere like Texas and works for a company that doesn't recognize Same Sex Marriages? Could set a nice precedent.

Just thought it was interesting, share your thoughts.

	17-12-2003 22:54									#2
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I think adoption agencies should find homes that are loving and supportive... the sexual orientation of the parents has no bearing on their ability to love and provide for children. I hope they win.

	17-12-2003 23:26									#3
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There's a suit like this in Florida. Evidentally my state feels that gay people are good enough to be foster parents, but not good enough to adopt children.

The University of North Florida did a survey here in town and found that 22% of my fellow Jacksonvillains believe that Gays can't get into heaven. They're right, but only because there's no heaven to go to, which I doubt is their reasoning. Frankly, I'm surprised it was less than a quarter of my townsfolk who hold such retrograde ideas.

	17-12-2003 23:39									#4
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quote: but only because there's no heaven to go to

HOW DO YOU KNOW? HAVE YOU DIED!? I DON'T THINK SO BUB!

	17-12-2003 23:44									#5
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Yes, but I got better.

	17-12-2003 23:55									#6
	Re: Gay Couple Sue Adoption Agency!!! Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Japher 1. Brings this issue to light, which I think is a good thing. 2. Make me wonder how different, if at all, my life would of been had I been raised by a same sex couple. 3. If state laws can cross boarders, what happens if a married couple from Hawaii or where ever else they allow homosexuals to marry move to somewhere like Texas and works for a company that doesn't recognize Same Sex Marriages? Could set a nice precedent. Just thought it was interesting, share your thoughts.

1. Yes.

2. Probably it would have been different, but without knowing how your life under your actual parents were, we can't really say. But it likely would also be starkly different if you had, say, Hindu parents instead, or Chinese ones.

3. The Defense of Marriage Act ostensibly covers this, as it doesn't require other states to recognize gay marriages. But it has yet to stand up to a Supreme Court challenge.

	18-12-2003 00:24									#7
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quote: 2. Probably it would have been different, but without knowing how your life under your actual parents were, we can't really say. But it likely would also be starkly different if you had, say, Hindu parents instead, or Chinese ones.

and it would have been reeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaally different had they been gay chinese parents.

	18-12-2003 11:56									#8
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I really don't think gay people should be adopting children. Not because I have anything against gays. They are good people. But we have to take the kid's best interests into account, not the selfish desires of gay couples. The fact is, kids with gay parents will be teased and tormented growing up. That in turn will warp their personalities. We are essentually ruining kids lives by allowing gays to adopt kids.

None of this would be necessary if society was enlightened enough to accept gay people fully. But sadly. we are far from that happening.

	18-12-2003 11:59									#9
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quote: I really don't think gay people should be adopting children. Not because I have anything against gays. They are good people. But we have to take the kid's best interests into account, not the selfish desires of gay couples. The fact is, kids with gay parents will be teased and tormented growing up.

So the solution is to simply keep the status quo?

A similar argument could've been made against de-segregation of schools, would you have said the same thing then about teasing and tormenting?

	18-12-2003 12:03									#10
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: [SIZE=1] The fact is, kids with gay parents will be teased and tormented growing up. That in turn will warp their personalities. We are essentually ruining kids lives by allowing gays to adopt kids. None of this would be necessary if society was enlightened enough to accept gay people fully. But sadly. we are far from that happening.

Let's castrate all of Palestine, this will help ease their suffering. Oh, and adoption should be forbidden to horizontally-challenged people. Their children could be mocked.
(wait... isn't obesity becoming the norm anyway?)

Let us be foreseeing and forbid thin people to adopt children!

	18-12-2003 12:11									#11
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Damn, this world is rotting away...

	18-12-2003 12:38									#12
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doesnt a company have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason as they see fit?

	18-12-2003 13:12									#13
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not if they are a minority or other protected class.

And I take back what I said earlier. But gay couples really should consider what they are putting their kids through. People adopt kids to satisfy their own selfish desires. Yeah I know, they learn to love them an all that. But they should wish for the best home possible for the children. That's why I would never adopt. I would not make a good father. I'd rather the child go to a better home than I can provide.

	18-12-2003 13:27									#14
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quote: not if they are a minority or other protected class

right, I forgot that in order to treat them just like everyone else we arent allowed to say no. silly me.