18-12-2003 00:18									#1
	Tweaking of explorers Suffering from ads?

Do you think explorers should be tweaked to allow them to NEVER discover barbarians (like any unit of an expansionist civ):

• Yes, it will make them REALLY useful!
  
• Yes, but they also shouldn't discover a new technology to not unbalancing the game.
  
• Yes, but expansionist civs should receive a bonus to balance the game
  
• Yes, but they also shouldn't discover a new technology AND expansionist civs should receive a bonus.
  
• Yes! Conquistador will then become a good UU!!
  
• No, I use them and are usable just as they are actually.
  
• No, civs having the expansionist trait will be hurted by something like this!
  
• No! Conquistador will then become an overpowered UU!!
  

	18-12-2003 00:31									#3
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I don't think this is even moddable. The "no barbs popping" thing is a hardcoded part of the Expansionist trait, applying to ALL Expansionist units, not just Scouts.

This wouldn't affect Expansionist much, even if it could be modded. By the time Explorers are available, there are very few, if any, huts on the map. Explorers are much more useful as pillagers, anyway.

	18-12-2003 00:40									#4
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I concur with Vlad. Huts are rare after the ancient age, unless on some uncharted island, and then you aren't going to get anything really useful out of it anyways.

	18-12-2003 00:49									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov I don't think this is even moddable. The "no barbs popping" thing is a hardcoded part of the Expansionist trait, applying to ALL Expansionist units, not just Scouts. This wouldn't affect Expansionist much, even if it could be modded. By the time Explorers are available, there are very few, if any, huts on the map. Explorers are much more useful as pillagers, anyway.

Yes, you're right. I then suggest to "copy and paste" this hardcoded part from the Expansionist trait into the code of all Explorers. Maybe in a future patch...

	18-12-2003 00:50									#6
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Now, if we're still afraid about barbs eating our Explorers... we could just give Explorers a defense of 1. That would protect it from most barb poppings. Of course, this unbalances Explorers as pillagers, since if the defending rifle or whatever gets knocked off, instead of all the explorers sitting under it getting eaten, we'd have to kill them one by one. I suppose we could counter that by giving Explorers an HP penalty of -2. (I'd do -3, except I don't know how the game would handle it if one is built in a city sans Barracks, and hence with zero HP.)

It's probably best that we don't mod it anyway.

	18-12-2003 00:53									#7
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Nah, things are fine as is.

	18-12-2003 00:57									#8
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quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel I concur with Vlad. Huts are rare after the ancient age, unless on some uncharted island, and then you aren't going to get anything really useful out of it anyways.

Yes, I agree with you. But I have bad experiences being the first to discover Astronomy and going with a Caravel and an Explorer to explore the seas just to find only barbarians! With the modification of the Explorer, world exploration will be rewarded as it should be!

	18-12-2003 00:59									#9
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Hmm.. yeah that does sound good.

Now I'm divided.

	18-12-2003 01:09									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Anun Ik Oba Hmm.. yeah that does sound good. Now I'm divided.

With my experiences, I name goody huts as "God, it hurts!"

	18-12-2003 01:14									#11
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Uh.... I was 99% sure that explorers couldn't pop barbs....

I know I've never, ever run into explorers triggering barbs in MP. Didn't Firaxis post awhile back on this, saying any unit with TATR ability couldn't trigger barbs?

Now I'm really confused.

	18-12-2003 01:23									#12
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If explorers encounter a group of hostile natives, then it just goes to show that you should also bring along a defensive unit. Or only pop a hut when the explorer still has 3-4 moves available.

	18-12-2003 01:35									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Jaybe If explorers encounter a group of hostile natives, then it just goes to show that you should also bring along a defensive unit. Or only pop a hut when the explorer still has 3-4 moves available.

Maybe another option could be making them "stealth" to barbarians. And perhaps scouts should also receive this ability (thus, improving the expansionistic trait). Anyway, I think explorers should only trigger good items to justify their use instead of a normal military unit. Yes, they have the ability to use terrain as roads but by the time they can be built, the only portions of map to discover are just little islands. And in a little island it's the same to treat all terrain as roads or not, and in that case, it`s better to enter with a military unit into a goody hut...