18-12-2003 13:07									#1
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What determines the fluctuating cost of building the palace? Capital city size? Empire size? Both?

	18-12-2003 16:03									#2
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Empire size; the more you cities you have the more expensive it gets.

	18-12-2003 18:31									#3
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Didn't notice that before, the palace increases in price as your empire grows?

	18-12-2003 18:41									#4
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Yes...which is good for those prebuilds...those later wonders take more shields.

	19-12-2003 09:24									#5
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As long as no-one actually build the Palace anywhere from scratch that late in the game! It is much easier to use a Leader - even MGL's can still rush the Palace, or to use the auto-relocation of the Palace when you disband the capital. This takes a little effort to boost populations around the new capital enough, but less than building it from scratch.

	19-12-2003 09:32									#6
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I haven't tried this, but I assume if you select to build a palace, rush build with a MGL, you cannot switch to a wonder build at that point. Obviously that goes against the intent of the rules.

	19-12-2003 10:15									#7
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That's correct - they have fixed it so that no build with any amount of shields gained via poprushing, forest clearing, cashrushing or rushing with a leader that could not rush the new build directly can be changed to something like a Great Wonder.

	19-12-2003 13:04									#8
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I think palaces should be real cheap. that would discourage pre-building. I would also like palaces not to magically appear in the enemy ai when you conquer their capitol city. They should have to build them.

	19-12-2003 13:41									#9
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I miss wonder rushing.

	19-12-2003 16:13									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I think palaces should be real cheap. that would discourage pre-building. I would also like palaces not to magically appear in the enemy ai when you conquer their capitol city. They should have to build them.

That would leave a lot more exploits then the way it is now IMO.

	20-12-2003 08:38									#11
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quote: Originally posted by The Mad Monk I miss wonder rushing.

For the same reason I like less resources on the map in C3C compared to previous versions/patches is the same reason why I don't miss wonder rushing. The human player doesn't have easy avenues to win. It's harder now - I like that.

	20-12-2003 12:45									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner For the same reason I like less resources on the map in C3C compared to previous versions/patches is the same reason why I don't miss wonder rushing. The human player doesn't have easy avenues to win. It's harder now - I like that.

Ditto that; there is alot more uncertainty now, a little more mystery!

	20-12-2003 13:01									#13
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I almost wish there was no rushing of wonders- period. Including scientific leaders and palace pre-building.

I would like wonders to be built soley on the basis of shield production and how early you start building them.

	20-12-2003 15:56									#14
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I'm not a very big supporter of the whole leader rushing feature either. I'm always glad I get one, but it just isn't the same building a wonder this way, the sense of achievement feels much greater when sitting in agony for (the last) 20 turns hoping no AI will build it before you.

	20-12-2003 16:23									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner For the same reason I like less resources on the map in C3C compared to previous versions/patches is the same reason why I don't miss wonder rushing. The human player doesn't have easy avenues to win. It's harder now - I like that.

All you need to do is program the AI to take advantage of what rushing strategies are open -- it shouldn't be that hard, after all they now have about a decade's worth of human play to model.

My veiw is that wonders should be the result of the efforts of an entire civilization, not just one city -- and the only way to do that, in Civ terms, is to allow various forms of rushing. If you think that makes it less of a challenge, fine -- pump up the shield requirements until you really do need to throw you entire civilization behind the effort -- whether with most / all cities producing carvans, or converting shields to gold (or sending every available citizen!) for the eventual final rush.

	20-12-2003 18:43									#16
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If the AI could really be programmed to match the human in rush build decision making, then okay.

But using Civ2 as an example, the AI would be very aggressive to building wonders -- sometimes five or six cities would be working on the same wonder-- and don't forget about the AI cheats..I mean rushing. People complained endlessly about that.

Its probably easier to bring everyone down to a level playing field versus bringing the AI up to our ability.