19-12-2003 07:25									#31
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There are two types of students (well more, but they can be devided to these): the ones who want to just pass and get a degree. They might read, but they only do it to pass the test. Then there are people who are there to learn. I don't think we'll gain anything with punishing. But then again there must be some ramifications to cheating. People choose themselves what they want to do with their lives.

	19-12-2003 07:26									#32
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I was on the honor court at my college, and we were deadly serious when we found you guilty. It was a simple code, "a cadet does not lie, cheat, or steal nor tolerate those who do." So I didn't only deal with cheating but also stealing and lieing.

I was known for bieng particularly ruthless when I made a decision, but I have to say it is a hard decision to sit there and watch it be announced to someone that his higher education is ruined for the rest of his life. Cheating is mandatory expulsion, no questions asked (though there is an appeals process).

In our system members of the court also conduct the prosecution and the defense. It sounds a little biased at first, but we are all elected in company elections, 2 per company, so you get a wide variety of styles and ideas from the experiance. I was on the court six times, conducte 2 defenses and one prosecution. The whole deal is a little sad becasue you really feel for some of them. While I can honestly say I have never cheated, I can't say I haven't been tempted.

Anyways, the reason it is so strict is becasue we prided ourselves on producing not only educated and hard working graduates, but honest and trustworthy one people would want to hire. I remember the rampant cheating in highschool which was to the point that two of the people competing for Validictorian were rampant cheaters. That is jsut sad.

-Pat

	19-12-2003 07:31									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon You're a good guy Spiff. Now if only all my students could learn the value of referencing.

Actually, at first, I was under the (completely irreal) impression that plagiarism was widely tolerated in uni, with all the direct quotes, and the easy access to a huge amount of books.

I have been taught the value of referencing, I didn't discover it by myself at all.

I now do my references in the best formal way because:
- the guys in Stuttgart are completely crazy about it. If you are slightly imprecise in the formal source-referencing, you're in for losing points, or even have your work rejected.
- I've understood it was the most convenient way for the reader to find intersting literature when reading an (always flawed) student's paper.

	19-12-2003 07:32									#34
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yeah Spiff is a good guy, though I often attack his EU dreams

Yeah, I've been listening to Lasse Mårtenson and became softie for the night.

	19-12-2003 07:33									#35
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos I was on the honor court at my college, and we were deadly serious when we found you guilty. It was a simple code, "a cadet does not lie, cheat, or steal nor tolerate those who do." So I didn't only deal with cheating but also stealing and lieing.

I could have figured you were a military guy.

That's one good thing about the military, people still have some sense of honour.

	19-12-2003 07:34									#36
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Hey Agathon - in my Ancient Greek World class, we recreated the symposium, and two or three students represented each old dead white man. Guess which tragic playwrite I portrayed?

	19-12-2003 08:01									#37
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quote: Originally posted by monolith94 Hey Agathon - in my Ancient Greek World class, we recreated the symposium, and two or three students represented each old dead white man. Guess which tragic playwrite I portrayed?

Excellent. He always cracks me up.

That's a gold star for you in my book. Did you choose him, or was it random?



"Even God cannot change what has come to pass." - Agathon

	19-12-2003 08:16									#38
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I had a trio of Asian students blatantly copying lab reports a few years ago - right down to every shocking grammar mistake.
The report was passable so I gave it a 6/10 then split it 3 ways.
They didn't do it again.

	19-12-2003 08:17									#39
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Never cheated, thought aboot it, but figured it was just as "easy" to the work myself.

Besides

I can fail honestly.

and

I always felt you only cheat yourself. I take pride in what I know I know.

	19-12-2003 08:33									#40
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THe military is still big on cheating because of problems with gundecking, However in college we were always aprehensive of the future of our own code because of the way the Academies have let their slip. We feared somebody sueing us because ours was more strict than a Federal institutions. Probobly unfounded, but as things like honestly erode from the world you really have to protect the vestages you want to keep.

-Pat

	19-12-2003 08:37									#41
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Absolutely not. I don't see the point. I don't plagarize and I don't cheat on tests. I get good grades on my own, and I have no remorse for people that cheat (especially when they end up getting and bragging about higher grades because they don't get caught )

I say punish him...it's a good lesson that needs to be learned. DON'T CHEAT.

	19-12-2003 08:41									#42
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I'm lazy as anything but I don't cheat.

	19-12-2003 08:44									#43
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I do know pwople who did cheat at other colleges, and I remember hearing them talk about on breaks and being proud that not only did I not cheat, but got better grades anyways. Nothing like the pride of a job well done when you get that paper back with a big 100 or A+ on it.

-Pat

	19-12-2003 08:46									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy When will these people learn. Thesauruses were integrated into word processors FOR A REASON!!!! .

And dictionaries are integrated for a reason, too. They help you to spell "Thesauri".

	19-12-2003 08:48									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova And dictionaries are integrated for a reason, too. They help you to spell "Thesauri".

mumble mumble

	19-12-2003 08:58									#46
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I'm against the idea of cheating. I believe quite highly in my own honour - keeping true to my word, not putting pride before reason, assisting people, etc.

I've never cheated because it is against my honour, but I always tend to type out code for other students, and explain the concepts of their assignments to them.

I LOVE seeing the looks on their faces when the professor springs a 'pop quiz'. It's *ing hillarious.

	19-12-2003 21:26									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos THe military is still big on cheating because of problems with gundecking, However in college we were always aprehensive of the future of our own code because of the way the Academies have let their slip. We feared somebody sueing us because ours was more strict than a Federal institutions. Probobly unfounded, but as things like honestly erode from the world you really have to protect the vestages you want to keep. -Pat

The honor code was the best part of the Academy. But the majority of students wanted it stricter.

	19-12-2003 22:16									#48
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Depends what you call cheating I suppose. I have never copied from someone during an exam, though I have let people copy from me. I reference most of the stuff i use, and try to rewrite it.

I have been known to ask for help on forums and stuff for various coding projects though, and anything i use I wouldn't reference (but would change to such a degree that it is no longer directly linked).

Had a silly exam this week in Database Administration. We knew it was open book, and we kind of knew the question was going to be to compare various features of MySQL4 and MS SQL Server. So I didn't really revise but relied on my speed reading to get all the info I needed. The funny thing was that it was also an open web exam, which must be the stupidest thing I have ever seen.

	19-12-2003 22:23									#49
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I copy homework all the time. There is no way to keep up, otherwise.

	19-12-2003 22:39									#50
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If you're not writing a Thesis or a paper for a refereed journal, I don't think that anybody expects you to produce any new science, so it is expected that all content in your papers (at least the theoretical part) is taken mot-a-mot from your references, without the need to explicitly state what's rom where.

Copy pasting from a collegue's paper is a problem though. IIRC I have never done it, though I have heavily used the works of my fellow students as guidelines for muy own work. On the other hand, I distribute my own papers freely to the younger generations, in a convenient format via email if asked to, without any qualms. It's their problem if they're cheaters.

The funny thing is that I'm expecting the first reports on a lab excercise I was assigned to teach this semester just after the holidays, so I'm going to find myself on the other side for the first time in my life. I hope that this experience will not change me drastically.

	19-12-2003 23:24									#51
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quote: Originally posted by TCO University students should not cheat.

Duh.

quote: Uni students are too wimpy in ethics and general outlook on life. We are raising a nation of wimps.

I wouldn't have believed you until this semester. Though I was slightly more impressed by the final. But it still wasn't that hard and they managed to **** it up pretty badly. Then the prof told me to curve it pretty hard.

quote: Cheaters should be expelled. I am not kidding.

I'm for that.

	19-12-2003 23:55									#52
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I copied a lot during secondary school- as Azazel says, it's the only way to keep up. I'd only copy stuff if I had to though, I'd always much rather do the work. Besides, it didn't really matter at the end of the day, there were times I wrote the same things as much more favoured students- who would themselves do the smae as me when convenient, but clearly as my own work and they would still always get the better mark. Damn favouritism!

At university though, I've had to do such little of my own work (Maybe a half dozen essays a year) that I haven't needed to plagiarise. What's the point? You can directly copy someone else or an article on the internet and maybe get away with it, or you can read their work, understand it and write your own. It's not difficult.

	20-12-2003 14:57									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It's hard to cheat in my courses.

In my first university C SC course I couldn't get a Java applet to run, so I downloaded the demonstration .class file and ran it through javap to see what was going on (it turns out I'd mixed up two variables in an expression; the ****trumpet who'd written the skeleton code had given the variables identifiers like 'dx' and 'x').

I figured they were asking for it by putting the .class file up. I also think that I was finding a creative solution to the problem--the essence of programming--and any prof who wasn't wearing his ass for a hat would have approved.

SP

	20-12-2003 15:07									#54
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I did some minor cheating (copying homework etc...) but nothing major. All of my term papers were original but that's because the teachers checked for plagerism like a hawk and they expelled people who were caught.

	20-12-2003 15:13									#55
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Never cheated, ever -- and have the GPA to prove it.

Also took way to long to decide to withdraw when really necessary.

	20-12-2003 19:37									#56
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I have never cheated.

A funny thing happened in the final of a post-grad course. The guy sat in front of me turned around and asked if I needed any assistence.

	20-12-2003 21:09									#57
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I was an angel all throughout my scholastic career, despite which I graduated third out of a class of nearly 3000 in the School of Arts and Sciences at my university. Of course, I also have no friends from my university days.

	20-12-2003 21:10									#58
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Oops.

	20-12-2003 21:16									#59
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I was going through some of my students' character studies today, and thought, 'His English is far too good for someone who scored so low on his presentation.' So I typed a phrase into Google and found his paper in the first link. :shrug:

	20-12-2003 21:42									#60
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Those who have to cheat to pass a course have no business there in the first place. Kick'em out!

As for myself, I have never cheated. My philosophy is to compete against myself rather than against others. Therefore, as long as know I'm learning stuff I don't really care about grades and stuff like that