19-12-2003 08:11									#1
	Who should be held responsible? (Nukes) Increase the size of your Attachments

That whole Enola Gay thread got me thinking...

Edward Teller was my idol... Oppenheimer, Fermi, Bohr, the likes as well...

I don't see what they did as a crime. Do you?

I mean, making weapons of mass destruction is not something that they really had in mind, it was a consequence, an end to their means. They proved theory, but at the same time killed many, many, ppl, risked the lives of many more, and really just ignored the purpose of what science is suppose to do, IMO...

From it though, has come other sciences that will safe many other lives, remove ppl from risk, and further the real purpose of what I think is science.

So, do you think that it is the science that kills, or those who use the science to their own goals?

Me? God bless and have mercy on their souls, and thank you from the bottom of my mind.

	19-12-2003 08:13									#2
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I think Oppenheimer himself said it better than anyone else.

	19-12-2003 08:14									#3
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What are you thinking?

	19-12-2003 08:15									#4
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Me. It's my fault. Sorry.

	19-12-2003 08:15									#5
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duh...

	19-12-2003 08:16									#6
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I was more thinking of the orgyists in China.

These people deserve death and torture!!!!!

	19-12-2003 08:20									#7
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jealous, spiff?

	19-12-2003 08:20									#8
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I blame the caveman who first chipped a river stone to a sharp edge. I mean, JESUS MAN, didn't you think of the ramafications? And wouldn't you know, a week later the little monster went and invented fire. Some poeple never learn.

	19-12-2003 08:23									#9
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quote: I blame the caveman who first chipped a river stone to a sharp edge. I mean, JESUS MAN, didn't you think of the ramafications? And wouldn't you know, a week later the little monster went and invented fire. Some poeple never learn.

I tried to warn him, but he just wouldnt listen.

	19-12-2003 08:24									#10
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Much like Patroklos, I believe that Og, who discovered fire on a lazy Sunday afternoon 40,000 years ago, presents us with the same dilemma.

All human progress can be used for both good and evil.

Plus deterrance by nuclear weapons helped prevent the outbreak of an all-out confrontation during the Cold War.

	19-12-2003 08:27									#11
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Arrogant fool, god only knows how many innocent children have been maimed by thrown rocks and hot stove tops. I think war crimes trial is in order.

	19-12-2003 08:36									#12
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It's a good point that MAD, while terrifying, seems to have actually worked over the Cold War. It seems unlikely that there would not have been further large scale conventional war after WWII if nuclear weapons had not been in play.

As for who is responsible, as has been said, the wielders of a weapon have responsibility, not the inventors. All progress we make can be used wisely or stupidly, and those who use it stupidly are the culprits.

	19-12-2003 09:00									#13
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Just what was oppenheimer's take on the matter, anyway?

	19-12-2003 09:05									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Just what was oppenheimer's take on the matter, anyway?

"Now I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."

	19-12-2003 09:10									#15
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From this, I believe

quote: If the radiance of a thousand suns Were to burst at once into the sky, That would be like the splendor of the Mighty One... I am become Death, The shatterer of Worlds. - The Bhagavad-Gita

http://www.fatherryan.org/nuclearincidents/trinty2.mov

http://homepage.mac.com/jfstrain/blogsound/OPPYQTE.wav

	19-12-2003 09:11									#16
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you can really say we are all responsible for nukes, and for every weapon for that reason.

Person A invents the pointy stick which makes it easier for him to hunt and therefore more efficient, maybe he begins to stockpile supplies.
Person B is jealous of Person A's accomplishment and wants some of that food to feed his family, so he goes and tries to steal some.
Person A catches person B in the act and puts 2 and 2 together and realises that pointy stick can be used to keep Person B away.
Person B runs away screaming and yelping with pointy stick in his left butt cheeck.

Modern:
Country A wants more resources for whatever reason. They use thier shiny gun to order people to join thier country.
Country B decides that it will remain its own country and further more, for Country A pointing thier shiny gun at them they will humiliate them. So country B grabs thier shiny gun.
Counrties A and B fight and fight, soon very few people wanting to fight are left in each country. A person in country B says "Hey, I have an idea for a shinier gun! It will help us to win!"
Country B makes this gun and uses it effectively against country A
Country A says stop it! Go away we dont want to fight anymore.
Country B says, return to how you were so you wont be a threat to us anymore.
Country A says, No.
Country B points thier shiner gun again
Country A says Ok, ok, we give up.

	19-12-2003 17:22									#17
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who should be held responsible?

che.

at least he admits it.

	19-12-2003 17:39									#18
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It is hard to accuse science and technical progress when there have been recently hundreds of thousand men slauthered with machete in Rwanda.

	19-12-2003 17:40									#19
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and that's all france's fault.

	19-12-2003 17:50									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed and that's all france's fault.

France did not cause it, did not do it. France did not prevent it and did not stop it. Nobody else either.

	19-12-2003 18:17									#21
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well i suppose if you want to justify your country's poor record...

	19-12-2003 18:54									#22
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I'm with Che on this one. It's all his fault.