20-12-2003 03:31									#1
	Libya announces end to all weapons programs Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Apparently, they're doing this to get trade with the US. They're also acknowledging that they had them in the first place. Bush is going to speak in a few moments.

	20-12-2003 03:32									#2
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ha...he called him "moo-more al kadaafi"

	20-12-2003 03:37									#3
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Umm... does it matter?

EDIT: Uh, this sounds pretty stupid first other-than-thread-starter-post. This comment was mainly inspired by:

quote: Bush is going to speak in a few moments.

Why the hell would president hold a speech because some nation gives up it's WMD programme? Did anyone outside UN hold a special speech when Pakistan acquired nuclear weaponry?

	20-12-2003 03:40									#4
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Damn, talk about coming out of left field.

	20-12-2003 03:52									#5
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Why? We've shown what we'll do to countries that violate UN sanctions and ignore the "decent respect to the opinions of mankind". Note that they didn't bother negotiating to the French and Germans, but rather the UK and US.

I wonder why... ?

	20-12-2003 03:59									#6
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Obviously this was done out of fear and respect for the United Nations and had nothing to do with Blair and Bush taking out Saddam.

	20-12-2003 04:00									#7
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The speak-loud-while-carrying-a-big-stick policy certainly has its effects

	20-12-2003 04:00									#8
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Obviously.

Edit: Response to Ned.

	20-12-2003 04:03									#9
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So I guess all them people who said that diplomacy could never make a utball dictator disarm were wrong then

	20-12-2003 04:05									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie So I guess all them people who said that diplomacy could never make a utball dictator disarm were wrong then

It's not that it could never work. It's just that the dictator had to be willing to actually negotiate instead of stall.

	20-12-2003 04:08									#11
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America has forgiven Hirohito too.

	20-12-2003 04:09									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Gibsie So I guess all them people who said that diplomacy could never make a utball dictator disarm were wrong then

I heard on the tube that negotiations began 9 months ago. That would make it late March, early April when the negotiations began. Methinks events to the east of Libya had something to do with the opening of said negotiations, dontcha think?

	20-12-2003 04:11									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie America has forgiven Hirohito too.

Hirohito has what do to do with this? I'm sure you can bring something up that has happened a little more recently.

	20-12-2003 04:16									#14
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Howard Dean, " I congratulate Prime Minister Blair and the US negotiators on their success in persuading Moammar Kaddafi to give up his weapons of mass destruction and allow inspectors to verify compliance. I only hope that these inspectors are UN inspectors and not American inspectors because only UN inspectors would have any credibility in the international community. When the UN inspectors said that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, they were right. We should have trusted them rather than trust the war mongering Bush administration. This is why we need the UN to lead this effort because we cannot trust Bush."

	20-12-2003 04:18									#15
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(from the other thread...)

quote: if i remember correctly iraq wasn't wholly co-operative with the UN inspectors

This seems to be a common phrase.

Could someone tell me, that if Iraq had no these famous WMD's, then why were they 'not wholly co-operating' with the weapon inspectors? And what does that phrase even mean, anyway?

According to Hans Blix, leader of the UN weapons inspector team:

quote: as the US build-up for an invasion of Iraq intensified, US administration officials had leaned on his weapons inspectors to use more damning language in their reports on Iraq.

This would indicate that since there were no weapons to be found, UN team was pushed to make false claims about the level of co-operation by Iraqi officials.

The whole "they didn't co-operate" -thing has been bugging me for a while.

OTOH, this is threadjacking.
EDIT: link added

	20-12-2003 04:25									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Howard Dean, " I congratulate Prime Minister Blair and the US negotiators on their success in persuading Moammar Kaddafi to give up his weapons of mass destruction and allow inspectors to verify compliance. I only hope that these inspectors are UN inspectors and not American inspectors because only UN inspectors would have any credibility in the international community. When the UN inspectors said that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, they were right. We should have trusted them rather than trust the war mongering Bush administration. This is why we need the UN to lead this effort because we cannot trust Bush."

I guess Dean can't count backwards either...

quote: In a televised address from London, England, Blair said Gadhafi had approached British and U.S. officials in March to see if they could resolve the issue of its weapons programs.

March... March... was there anything going on in the ME at that time that might've effected this change of heart?

	20-12-2003 04:32									#17
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Hmmm... March... ??

	20-12-2003 04:36									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Sprayber Hirohito has what do to do with this? I'm sure you can bring something up that has happened a little more recently.

Hirohito was the Emperor of WW2 Japan, but he was allowed to stay in power after the war, all the way into his death just a few years ago. Kadhafi was considered to be in the same league as Saddam and Osama. US even air bombed his private residence, but now it seems like he will be forgiven. I don't know if it's good or bad. I can say for sure that forgiving Hirohito made the world a better place, as the Japanese followed his lead and became friends of America. Forgiving Saddam would probably not have the same effect though...

At least I'm sure my neighbours 300 meters away from where I sit now will not forgive Kadhafi for Lockerbie, despite a 10 M$ damage tribute. Their daughter died in the chrash, and no tributes or excuses will bring her back.

	20-12-2003 04:36									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Howard Dean, " I congratulate Prime Minister Blair and the US negotiators on their success ..."

Not Blair and Bush. Uh huh.

Deanspeak.

	20-12-2003 04:37									#20
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[deadly give away]

spoiler(highlight to read): Ooooh, ooh, I know!!! I know!!! They attacked Iraq - a country with a WMD program!!!

	20-12-2003 04:40									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Howard Dean, " I congratulate Prime Minister Blair and the US negotiators on their success in persuading Moammar Kaddafi to give up his weapons of mass destruction and allow inspectors to verify compliance. I only hope that these inspectors are UN inspectors and not American inspectors because only UN inspectors would have any credibility in the international community. When the UN inspectors said that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, they were right. We should have trusted them rather than trust the war mongering Bush administration. This is why we need the UN to lead this effort because we cannot trust Bush."

While Dean seems to be an idiot in the same league (but on the opposite side) as Bush, he is right on this topic. Hans Blix is about to be choosen as Scandinavian of the Year. UN was right, and you were wrong.

	20-12-2003 04:41									#22
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Chem Ollie - Lockerbie is just one incident. Gadaffi iirc is not as crazy as saddam, and ever since he was attacked, there weren't claims of him being involved in terrorism.

It's his WMD programs that are scary.

	20-12-2003 04:41									#23
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Problem is that Hirohito was nothing more than a prop for his war-mongering generals (Tojo, etc) and did not, himself, plan Japan's WW2 strategy. Leaving him in place was OK as it wasn't him who started the war.

	20-12-2003 04:43									#24
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quote: Ooooh, ooh, I know!!! I know!!! They attacked Iraq - a country with a WMD program!!!

Uhh... there's a problem. Iraq had no WMD program immediately before the 2003 war. According to information currently available, it was destroyed in 1991.

	20-12-2003 04:45									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Chem Ollie - Lockerbie is just one incident. Gadaffi iirc is not as crazy as saddam, and ever since he was attacked, there weren't claims of him being involved in terrorism. It's his WMD programs that are scary.

Lockerbie was Europe's 9/11. Don't under-estimate our hatred for Libya after it.

	20-12-2003 04:45									#26
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Chem - Saddam had a year and a half from 9/11 when Bush first threatened him, to prepare and hide evidence of his programs, or even destroy them completely.

Why did he make it hard for the UN inspectors then?- probably so they won't find out that he had a program until very recently.

	20-12-2003 04:47									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Why did he make it hard for the UN inspectors then?- probably so they won't find out that he had a program until very recently.

Because the US was using them to spy on him, and he knew it.

	20-12-2003 04:48									#28
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Problem is that Hirohito was nothing more than a prop for his war-mongering generals (Tojo, etc) and did not, himself, plan Japan's WW2 strategy. Leaving him in place was OK as it wasn't him who started the war.

The Emperor of Austria did not start WW1 either.

	20-12-2003 04:48									#29
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quote: Chem - Saddam had a year and a half from 9/11 when Bush first threatened him, to prepare and hide evidence of his programs, or even destroy them completely.

Uhh... so, if he destroyed the programme, what was the reason for attack?

	20-12-2003 04:50									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Chem - Saddam had a year and a half from 9/11 when Bush first threatened him, to prepare and hide evidence of his programs, or even destroy them completely. Why did he make it hard for the UN inspectors then?- probably so they won't find out that he had a program until very recently.

Because he's an imbecil idiot (I'm drunk, expect a more serious answer another day)

EDIT: Agathon is not yet as drunk as me. (he's 6 hours behind) What he said...