24-12-2003 03:34									#121
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Then half of Africa fits your description.

	24-12-2003 03:36									#122
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Ned, you're so naive. How 'bout Suharto? He massacred hundreds of thousands when he seized power, and massacred hundreds of thousands more after he invaded East Timor. All with US support, him being our boy for 30-odd years.

	24-12-2003 04:01									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Ned, you're so naive. How 'bout Suharto? He massacred hundreds of thousands when he seized power, and massacred hundreds of thousands more after he invaded East Timor. All with US support, him being our boy for 30-odd years.

Look, Ramo, we left Saddam in power too. My point is that we have a duty to remove these people.

Clinton finally acted to liberate East Timor, did he not? Kudos for Bill!

KH, as to Africa, yes, we should police that area better. However, the way it has been working, the prior colonial powers take first responsibility. When the Liberian president "crossed the line" recently, what did we do?

We removed him.

The Brits and the French seem much more inclined to impose sanctions and complain rather than to act.

	24-12-2003 04:05									#124
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This is pathetic, Ned.

What are you arguing: that your criteria do form the standards which Washington lives by or that they should?

	24-12-2003 04:16									#125
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quote: Look, Ramo, we left Saddam in power too. My point is that we have a duty to remove these people.

You said: "I am not aware of any others that meet the criteria to whom we may have given a pass other than Saddam himself."

Suharto is just one example. Would you like me to continue?

quote: Clinton finally acted to liberate East Timor, did he not? Kudos for Bill!

Only after international pressure forced him to do so, and 20 years too late (the Ford administration was actively supporting the genocide of the Timorese through American arms); Suharto was friendly with the Clinton administration up to his removal. And the Javan Empire continues to oppress its people to this day - with the support of the US.

	24-12-2003 04:17									#126
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Hopefully, for his sanity, he means "should".

	24-12-2003 04:17									#127
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That they should and that they actually have since East Timor and Kosovo. We obviously failed with Saddam in '91 and with Suharto and perhaps dozens of others. The duty is really owed by the United Nations, but we, the USA, are the UN's primary muscle.