22-12-2003 23:12									#1
	All out war..... Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

England declares war on me. Then, Carthage and england form a military alliance against me...So, to stop the trend before everyone allies up against me, I make a military alliance agaisnt England and Carthage with Egypt, Germany, Babylon, Rome and Greece.
So, before 20 turns, I exterminate England and Carthage and now all the Civs I allied up with are Furious against me when they were polite or even Gracious with me the turn before...


Why is that?


Spec.

	22-12-2003 23:41									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Your answer is here.

In a nutshell: Allies are temporarily favorable towards you for as long as the alliance lasts. Since you exterminated the target civs, the alliances ended.

	22-12-2003 23:59									#3
	Full PM-box? Change here!

And why are they furious? It's not like I cancelled the agreement by ending the military alliance before 20 turns, I killed our common enemy!

If you are right, this is stupid.

Spec.

	23-12-2003 00:06									#4
	Increase the size of your Attachments

supposedly the game is more challenging if everyone is against you.

a major difference from smac.

	23-12-2003 00:44									#5
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Actually the AI is not suppose to be able to "gang" up on you as a result of your being the human. It will be do to the same factors
that would cause a rift for AI to AI. IOW the AI is not suppose to treat you differently than other AI's, except for the purpose of trade.

The war was causing you to pile up points that took effect after the war ended. If you razed any cities, that will ding your status. The act of eliminating the civ will cause a hit to you and so on.

You are now presumably stronger than you were and that is another hit.
I would expect you to gain more than the AI, so now they have a different perspective towards you.

If you and I make a deal to gang up on someone and you get more out of the deal than I do, would expect me to be a bit jealous and feel slighted?

	23-12-2003 01:07									#6
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they don't necessarily gang up on you. But they all seem to hate you if you get too powerful. Unless you agree to their lopsided trades.

	23-12-2003 02:32									#7
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quote: they don't necessarily gang up on you. But they all seem to hate you if you get too powerful. Unless you agree to their lopsided trades.

And is that supposed to be different from real life in any way?

	23-12-2003 03:01									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

You don't see countries like Ghana coming up to us and demanding our stealth technology

	23-12-2003 04:32									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Dissident they don't necessarily gang up on you. But they all seem to hate you if you get too powerful. Unless you agree to their lopsided trades.

Forget Ghana or even Mexico demanding or ganging up, well actually some feel that is how it is on the UN, but forget it.

Look at it from the game perspective. The AI will need to trim any large civ in the game in order to win, just as you would. It is going to be unhappy if you have more than it does as that makes you a threat to beat it. I don't see the problem with that once you get in the lead or even start to take the lead.


If you are low on the totem pole then it makes sense for any civ to consider using you as a means of getting stronger. You see that when one AI keeps going after one of the weaker civs.

	23-12-2003 09:36									#10
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by Dissident they don't necessarily gang up on you. But they all seem to hate you if you get too powerful. Unless you agree to their lopsided trades.

Just gifting them a few hundred gold every few (10?) turns or so can help. Try that out. By the later game that should be peanuts.

	23-12-2003 10:26									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

yah...the gold will do the trick....but sometimes, they take your gold and declare war on you anyway. If that happens, it was unavoidable.

Makes me think about Neville Chamberlain, "There will be peace in our time!" yeah, right. Germany was an aggressive AI in real life too.

	23-12-2003 11:16									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I used to think giving them gold per turn would help.

Often it didn't

I figured as long as I owed them money they wouldn't declare war on me. I was wrong.

	23-12-2003 11:22									#13
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It wouldn't be a CivGame if you didn't have to fight sixteen angry AI civilizations with armies half the size of yours and armed with deadly sharpened sticks.

	23-12-2003 20:23									#14
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quote: deadly sharpened sticks.

Invade Rome with Tanks
Raze and loot mercilessly
Oh sh*t, a spearman

	23-12-2003 20:53									#15
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Invade Rome with Tanks Raze and loot mercilessly Oh sh*t, a spearman

Where's Skywalker's avatar when we need it????

Back OT,
I've had alliances before and I got our common enemy down to 1 city. I surrounded it w/ my troops and just fortified them (mostly to keep my allies from taking the city). Then I waited for the alliances to run-out at which time I cancelled them. The next turn, I took the town and wiped-out that civ.

That strat seemed to 'lessen' my former allies' pure hatred of me. Sure they were no longer 'Gracious' but they weren't totally PO'ed either.

Drawbacks--it takes awhile just sitting there blocking and waiting, and occationally the "besieged" city will get lucky and kill one of your "interdictor" units, so have some backups handy.

I wouldn't recomend this strat if you don't have some units to spare. It requires a pretty good sized military to have units just camp-out. You might need other units elsewhere too. Keep that in mind.

	24-12-2003 01:11									#16
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Spec And why are they furious? It's not like I cancelled the agreement by ending the military alliance before 20 turns, I killed our common enemy! If you are right, this is stupid. Spec.

Politics.

	24-12-2003 01:20									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

If all else fails, find someone else to take it out on. You don't have to get heavily involved, it'll just keep the other civs off your back for the main part, until such time as you're ready to pick your next 'hit'

	24-12-2003 02:10									#18
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sometimes your best wars are the defensive ones, where you don't take any cities at all - or maybe just one city to stave off WW. Get all the AIs fighting each other while you stay out of it. You build Banks and Universities while they produce (and lose) dozens of Cavarly and Riflemen. Afterall, you have to find some way of overcoming the AI's production advantages.

	24-12-2003 04:07									#19
	Tired of ads?

quote: Where's Skywalker's avatar when we need it????

right here

Seriously, as soon as I saw "Oh sh*t, a spearman", I was ready to post about my avatar

back on topic, I love to roll over Medieval Era civs (at least, they're defending with Muskets) with my MA armies