23-12-2003 01:40									#1
	Holy Cow. Elite Ancient Cavalry can't produce MGL's? Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I was playing as the Germans last night. I got the Zeus wonder that produces Ancient Cavalry. I just got the game 4 days ago so I just found this out. Ancient Cavalry do not produce MGL's.

I fought well over a hundred battles with elite ancient cavalry units..I started counting them after no MGL had appeared for many battles.

So I had secured the continent and had planned on getting an MGL for my forbidden palace..after it became clear that Ancient Cavalry simply do not ever produce MGLs I restarted.

It wasn't in the civilopedia. I checked the ancient cavalry unit description and scoured the civilopedia.

If MGLs do appear from Ancient Cavalry units then this is a hardcore bug.

BTW there is no way this is just chance it is a statistical impossibility to not get at least one MGL after 150-200 battles with elites.

It simply was impossible to generate an MGL with these units. I'm a Civ vet who plays militaristic most of the time so I know all about MGL generation. I believe it is 1 in 17 average.

If this is a bug..fix it please firaxis! If not then please list this in the civilopedia with the next patch. It's a big ommision.

Guys let me know if I missed something cause I am kind of confused here and need an answer. So yay or nay? Are Ancient Cavalry able to create MGLs?

If not the Zeus wonder just went from the top of my list....to the bottom.

Last edited by Artifex on 23-12-2003 at 01:59

	23-12-2003 02:53									#2
	Inflate your Upload Space

Anyone know anything about this?

	23-12-2003 02:59									#3
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Have some patience, you've only given us an hour

Seeing that I don't play C3C, I can't help you...it might have been a better idea to post this in the Civ3-Conquests forum

	23-12-2003 02:59									#4
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I'm shocked. I haven't fought enough with elite ancient cav to draw this conclusion. I would be very interested in the answer...

	23-12-2003 03:03									#5
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I'm curious is this is a design desicion or an oversight. It might be too powerful to have a free type unit make great leaders. yes I know they aren't exactly free, but you get my drift.

	23-12-2003 03:41									#6
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quote: Holy Cow. Elite Ancient Cavalry can't produce MGL's?

I'm pretty sure they can, not putting any on it mind you but still pretty sure they can.

	23-12-2003 03:46									#7
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i've gotten a GL from ancient cav. i have no proof/screenshot/save to show it though

i just remember seeing the renamed ancient cav in the army I made with that GL.

sometimes you'll never get a GL, no matter how many battles you win...

	23-12-2003 04:24									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Artifex I thought I had produced one form AC, but I could be wrong. The thing is that I woudl not agree with two things you said.

1- 150-200 battle proves it

It seems to me that it is how many battles a given elite unit has, not how many you have had in the game. I would agree it would be scary, but what is the standard deviation?

2- SoZ drops to the bottom of the list.

What? I think you are over reacting here. If Firaxis came out and stated you will never get a leader from AC, I would still be very happy to have that wonder.

	23-12-2003 04:50									#9
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What'S a Zeus wonder? Somekind of new one I dont know about?....Sheesh....I feel like a newb and I've been playing this game since it came out...

Spec.

	23-12-2003 04:53									#10
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its a statue of zeus and creates a military unit for you every 5 turns (in this case, ancient cavalry, eg beefed up horsemen)

	23-12-2003 04:54									#11
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WTF!?!?! I dont have that in my Civ3! Is that an adon or something?

Spec.

	23-12-2003 05:00									#12
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I have also produced a MGL from an A-Cav unit.

Statistically speaking, with a 1/32 chance (assuming you're not militaristic and haven't got the HE) you've got about a 1/e^5 chance - so about 1/150 - of not getting one in 160 elite wins.

Unlikely? Maybe. 'Impossible''? Not even close.

	23-12-2003 05:01									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Conquests, Spec, Conquests

It's on sale now...Amazon.com surely you have sold enough cars to afford a slew of Civilization add ons!

	23-12-2003 05:24									#14
	Got spare money?

80% sure I have got MGLs with ACavs before. After all in that game I got 6 MGLs by 500AD and I was attacking almost exclusively with ACavs!

There are runs of really bad luck with MGL generation, and they tend to be just as you are expecting one.....

Connection? Perhaps.

	23-12-2003 06:08									#15
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ahem.

Attachment: acelite.png
This has been downloaded 244 time(s).

	23-12-2003 09:54									#16
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WHY on Earth do you still have that? It's a lie that they cost no maintenance, you know....

	23-12-2003 10:02									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

That puppy looks like disband material to me. Thanks for the proof. Now I know I was not dreaming again.

	23-12-2003 10:19									#18
	Got spare money?

i still have the ancient cav for the same reason i'm playing a game with over 100k in the bank.

	23-12-2003 10:22									#19
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I'm not really sure that he's all that concerned about the maintenance with his 100,000 gold. Yikes! I've never had that much at one time.

	23-12-2003 10:23									#20
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

well that's irrefutable proof. Thanks for posting that pauli.

I have Zeus in my current game...hopefully I'll get a MGL this time. I'll tell my ancient cavalry boys it's possible....

	23-12-2003 22:23									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I too, have gotten a MGL (2 of them) from ACav.

Unfortunately, since that game, I've not been able to build SoZ.

	23-12-2003 23:41									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by MotownDennis I'm not really sure that he's all that concerned about the maintenance with his 100,000 gold. Yikes! I've never had that much at one time.

the money sorta snuck up on me. i'd been holding steady around 30k for a good while, then i stopped buying things and stopped paying attention... and then i noticed the sixth digit

if propaganda EVER WORKED, i'd be able to buy out my enemies.

	24-12-2003 00:16									#23
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Heh, that is a lot of cash.

Artifex,

Are you sure your guys were elite (sounds weird, but the +1 hp thing confuses some people)?

If they were, and you did not have an active MGL, then you hit a nasty run of bad luck.

However, even if A.C. could not generate Leaders, the Statue would still be awesome. 200 shields in exchange for a 3.2.2 unit with +1 hp every 5 turns? It's awesome!

-Arrian

	24-12-2003 00:56									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Yeah, I just got a GL from one last night. I have a related question, though. I captured it from my enemy, but don't have any ivory of my own. I immediately traded for some, because I assumed it won't work without it. It occurs to me that this isn't based on any hard information, though?

I also noticed they don't have an upgrade path specified (same with crusaders). I'm thinking about putting them into my new army, even though I have nights, since I can't upgrade them anyways, and it should still make a pretty good army. Any advice on this?

	24-12-2003 01:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Heh, that is a lot of cash. Artifex, Are you sure your guys were elite (sounds weird, but the +1 hp thing confuses some people)?

I was going to ask this

	24-12-2003 01:07									#26
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I really need more MGLs in my games. Its streaky like the combat rolls- some games I keep getting them, but most, I seem to have a hard time.

	24-12-2003 01:07									#27
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quote: Originally posted by SlightlyMadman Yeah, I just got a GL from one last night. I have a related question, though. I captured it from my enemy, but don't have any ivory of my own. I immediately traded for some, because I assumed it won't work without it. It occurs to me that this isn't based on any hard information, though? I also noticed they don't have an upgrade path specified (same with crusaders). I'm thinking about putting them into my new army, even though I have nights, since I can't upgrade them anyways, and it should still make a pretty good army. Any advice on this?

1) I believe SoZ will work even if you don't have any ivory. You just need a source of ivory to start building SoZ (you can lose that source partway through and still finish the wonder). I don't think it has any effect on the unit production. But I'm not 100% sure on that.

2) Well, a 3x A.C. army would have these stats: 4.3.3. If built with the elite* unit that generated the leader, plus 2 veteran units, that would be 16hp's of 4.3.3. That's pretty hardcore.

However, 3x knights = 6.4.3. With 3 vets, that's 12hps.

Up to you. One way gives more movement & hp at the expense of 2 attack and 1 defense.

How far are you from Cavalry?

-Arrian

	24-12-2003 02:06									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hum, I thought that if you captured SoZ and had no ivory it would not produce any units. I never seen Ivory deplete, so I am not sure about if you lose it. If it was a trade, though, then you could lose ivory. Maybe someone has dealt with it.

	24-12-2003 02:41									#29
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Well, since it looks like I'll have to abandon the game anyways, since I can't keep playing it with the new patch, I'll just cancel the deal and let it run 5 turns, and see if it keeps producing. I probably won't get to play again before Thursday, though, but I'll post here when I've tested it.

	24-12-2003 03:18									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

without ivory, the soz produces culture, but not units.