23-12-2003 03:02									#1
	GoW wish to do a deal over Barca / New Madrid Full PM-box? Change here!

From Aggie:

quote: Here's an idea. Give us a price for Barcelona and any other city. We'll then determine if it's worth it to get the city. This would do wonders for good will. Also it would open the bazaar up and we do need to all start trading. We are approaching chem. Perhaps we could also start some tech negotiations and collaboration.

They still want to do a deal for Barca.

By default I expect we have turn down GoW's offer, given RP's feelings about GoW. But if there's anyone who thinks they can help 'manage' RP (OPD/Arrian?) - who also fancies doing a deal with GoW over Barca and New Madrid, maybe this could be tried. By default, we stall GoW a bit then say no.

If anyone wants to quickly get hold of GOW to chat or send a message, then Master Zen should be the contact - I gather he is Foreign Minister.

	23-12-2003 03:07									#2
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

As a seperate matter GoW want to do business with us anyway - so whatever the likely non-deal over Barca/NM, we need to think about possible tech / lux deals with GoW. ND haven't even mentioned peace, let alone trade, so unless someone can get things going with ND (Vulture?) it looks like GoW are the more likely trading partners at the moment.

	23-12-2003 15:20									#3
	message from Master Zen Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Greeting to our Stormian friends. There are two issues that we would like to bring forward with your team: 1) Given that we agreed not to interrupt the evacuation of GS troops from southern Bob we would like to receive an assurance that GS will not raze those cities which are currently under its occupation in the continent. 2) We would like to schedule a "post-war" chat with your team since there is much to discuss especially tech and lux trades and the overall post-war situation as well as any other topics that GS wishes to bring up. Best regards and happy holidays -Master Zen GoW CoFA

	23-12-2003 16:11									#4
	reply to MZ Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Thankyou for your message, MZ. It has been posted on our forum for discussion, but meanwhile here are couple of thoughts. 1) GS are at peace with GoW, but not yet with ND - from whom we have not recieved a reply to recent suggestions of peace. While we are still at war with ND, they could take the cities. Further, whilst there is a theoretical possibility of a deal being done with these cities, we would naturally have to discuss the situation with the original owners of those cities, who, as you will understand, are slightly sore at the moment. 2) A post-war chat sounds an excellent idea. I'm sure GS will look forward to it Best Regards, Cort Haus

(copy in log)

	23-12-2003 16:18									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

So, Stormies - do we want to do a deal with GoW over NM and Barca? Can we manage RP on this - do we need RP approval or not? Should we care if they disapprove? Can someone step up and deal with RP for us on this matter?

	23-12-2003 16:54									#6
	Increase Your PM Length

My personal sentiment is that any deal is ok. However the price should be high enough... tech, or e.g. resources (SP?). And, I'd include a clause that GoW isn't allowed to trade the cities to ND or any other civ except us and RP. Without loopholes too (so no fake war just so ND can capture those cities)

What this can do is to create more tension on Bob, if GoW gets territory on the other side of ND. So, if we can get compensated for the loss of pop in any other way, I would welcome it.

One thing, though: I haven't followed all of the discussions regarding our peace with GoW (this is the first I hear about it), but them giving us retreat possibility is not nearly enough reason for us not having the right to pillage those cities. Let them fight over it if they need to be the asses.

DeepO

	23-12-2003 19:16									#7
	Remove this text

They won't give us tech for 1 city. I wouldn't, anyway.

How many silk supplies does Barc grant? Can we ask for silks for x number of turns?

You know what... maybe we should just raze and leave. If we can't get anything of real value back for the city, to hell with 'em, burn it.

-Arrian

	23-12-2003 19:30									#8
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tech might be too much, but a slave would work for me. Also, they ask about more then one city, if we want to, no? if the condition is met that it won't change hands, I wouldn't mind giving them more...

DeepO

	23-12-2003 19:54									#9
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{edit : wrong tech}

We need RP in the loop somehow, and they're not going to like it, I expect, if we trade the cities to GoW - however much we feel entitled to it. As long as those cities are there we can peel pop from them.

Barc has only 1 silk. ND has the rest. Also, ND has 4 Iron, GoW has none. According to the F4 screen, GoW and ND are not even in contact, and cannot trade, but that can't be right. So presumably ND are supplying Iron and Silk to GoW - as long as they remain allied. If that remains, GoW could supply us silk and wines, while we could supply them furs and incense. We could supply them NM and Barc, and they could supply us ... Chemistry?

Last edited by Cort Haus on 23-12-2003 at 20:02

	23-12-2003 20:00									#10
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New Madrid's a bit buggy anyway - it crashes some PC's, and has invisible heads (all Chinese in a Spanish city - maybe it'd be OK for GoW).

Barc for 20 turns of Silk?

	23-12-2003 21:17									#11
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Not being in on the whole thing, I may not have the proper perspective. That said, I would say RP's lack of timely response free us to do what we think best.

ND does not seem to be disposed to deal with us on anything, but war right now.

I am not sure what their letting us go peaceful is worth, since they had no real choice. We would have gotten out anyway. It was cheaper for them than trying to punish us.

	23-12-2003 22:26									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Let's try for a tech. I don;t think happiness is all that much of an issue, so silks aren't worth all that much.

	23-12-2003 23:10									#13
	Tired of ads?

Losing silk will affect the large (11-12) cities in south and those pushing for size-6 WLTK further north. We could run a 10% lux slider for a turn or two until we get new lux trades going post-war.

So shall we ask MZ if they want Barc & NM now - for Chemistry when they've got it? And also ask RP if they mind?

	24-12-2003 01:58									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Let's just cut NM out of this - they could freak out if they get a buggy city in a deal and that could cause all sorts of complications. Let's just abandon N.M.

Sircocco, on the other hand... they might want that one, if NM is to be razed.

Barcelona +Sircocco for a tech would be awesome, but I'd be shocked if they took that deal.

Barcelona for 20 turns of a luxury... eh, that's not bad. I'd probably take that.

If ND has all the silk, then GoW cannot trade us silk. They can give us wine, though.

-Arrian

	24-12-2003 05:11									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Let's just cut NM out of this - they could freak out if they get a buggy city in a deal and that could cause all sorts of complications. Let's just abandon N.M. Sircocco, on the other hand... they might want that one, if NM is to be razed. Barcelona +Sircocco for a tech would be awesome, but I'd be shocked if they took that deal. Barcelona for 20 turns of a luxury... eh, that's not bad. I'd probably take that. If ND has all the silk, then GoW cannot trade us silk. They can give us wine, though. -Arrian

Arrian makes a good point about NM, although we may want to communicate our reasons for its destruction to all involved.

I don;t see why we shouldn't shoot for tech. Maybe if we also continue to thus gift tech to RP, it will salve their wounds (an argument that could be presented to GoW, btw).

	26-12-2003 20:23									#16
	Support Apolyton

sent message to MZ suggesting cities for tech possibilities.