23-12-2003 04:04									#1
	Honestly, the whole process of Childbirth is quite disgusting Enter the AD-FREE zone

So why not revolutionize it? We've done so for other major facets of life, so many it would be inane to start to name them. Just look around you.

Anyway, can we not simply start to remove fetuses perhaps w/ placentia and place them in incubators for healthier monitored feeding and resultant growth? At a certain defined stage of pregnancy, before the young woman starts to stretch out to abnormal proportions and emotional distress. And let's not mention the consequences of the final hours, itself. PHEW

Could this be done, in any sucessful way shape or form? Can we beat the way of the animal???

	23-12-2003 04:31									#2
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But didn't God say that women deserved it?

	23-12-2003 04:33									#3
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Yeah we could, but why? The natural way is less complicated and it works just fine.

Sure there is a lot of pain and stress, but at the end of it all, when the baby emerges from the womb, there is a tremendous joy and a very special bond that forms between the mother and her new born baby. Your method would eliminate that special bond.

	23-12-2003 04:51									#4
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Caesarian.

	23-12-2003 04:58									#5
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i have to agree, it is pretty gross. anybody who had to watch nova's "the miracle of life" in class will also agree.

	23-12-2003 05:15									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed i have to agree, it is pretty gross. anybody who had to watch nova's "the miracle of life" in class will also agree.

Its only gross when your watching someone elses video of their child being born.
It is totally awesome when you witness the birth of your child.

	23-12-2003 05:23									#7
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quote: Originally posted by CorpusScorpius Its only gross when your watching someone elses video of their child being born. It is totally awesome when you witness the birth of your child.

no, thats gross too

	23-12-2003 05:36									#8
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Zylka, might I ask how this particular topic came into your head? Anything happen to trigger it?

	23-12-2003 05:58									#9
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You should go find an obstetrical anatomy book and go look up the structure of the placenta. You'd discover the placenta is an organ actually made up of both maternal and placental tissues. Blood vessels from both approximate in an intimate relationship, yet the blood of the mother and child do not intermix (usually). Miraculously, despite the intertwining of tissues from the two genetically distinct living beings the baby's tissues generally elicit a rejection reaction by the mother's immune system.

We are nowhere near being able to grow an artificial maternal placenta.

	23-12-2003 05:59									#10
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Agreed. And so is the start of the process. :yuck:

	23-12-2003 06:01									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Zylka, might I ask how this particular topic came into your head? Anything happen to trigger it?

Maybe he was thinking about his own birth?



OK, I'm sorry. That was uncalled for, but it was so obvious that I just couldn't resist.

	23-12-2003 06:04									#12
	Re: Honestly, the whole process of Childbirth is quite disgusting Put an end to popups!

Well, in your case ..........
speak for yourself.



Oops, ther I went again. I'm sorry. I couildn't help it. I'll shut up and go away.

	23-12-2003 06:19									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Agreed. And so is the start of the process. :yuck:

Conception?

	23-12-2003 06:20									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Verto Conception?

Bingo.

	23-12-2003 06:22									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove You should go find an obstetrical anatomy book and go look up the structure of the placenta. You'd discover the placenta is an organ actually made up of both maternal and placental tissues. Blood vessels from both approximate in an intimate relationship, yet the blood of the mother and child do not intermix (usually). Miraculously, despite the intertwining of tissues from the two genetically distinct living beings the baby's tissues generally elicit a rejection reaction by the mother's immune system.

Yikes! In the clinic I couldn't stop staring at this pseudo cross sectioned, illustrated diagram of a child in the womb for fetal alcohol prevention syndrome. The placentia was all thick with cross cut red/blue veins & arteries, and sac tissue hinted of rich nutrient value by poor abstract stippling.

Hey - so what exactly goes on if the baby and mother aren't sharing blood? I always wondered how some infants come out with HIV if the mother has, yet with this confirmation I wonder how alcohol in the host blood system makes it's way to the infant, as the stuff absorbs like lightning.

quote: Maybe he was thinking about his own birth?

That's disgusting. I was a Caesarian. Well, in any case I just wanted to make an ideological upstart thread to goad particular members - yet this informative discussion could prove much more meaningful!

	23-12-2003 06:25									#16
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I was Caesarian, too! Cut from my mother's womb, so to speak. I like to think this is an indelible part of my relationship with my mother. It certainly explains her disposition.

	23-12-2003 06:28									#17
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Anyone who's touched their mother's vagina should OBVIOUSLY be ashamed of themselves

	23-12-2003 06:47									#18
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Amen! Sick bunch of perverts.

	23-12-2003 08:00									#19
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the most disgusting thing known to man. and people videotape this crap. I think I had a thread on that once.

I heard that the female birth canal is the limit to the size of the human brain. But if most women have C-sections, evolution may be able to increase the size of the human brain.

Think of the implications for the future of mankind.

	23-12-2003 08:00									#20
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Maybe we should just clone people and skip the messy parts.










....or not.

	23-12-2003 08:58									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Agreed. And so is the start of the process. :yuck:

Well at lease the woman of the world will not have to worried about you hitting on them for sex.

	23-12-2003 09:01									#22
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quote: Originally posted by JCG Maybe we should just clone people and skip the messy parts. ....or not.

Even as implied joke - what exactly do you think that means? Sticking someone in a "cloning machine" and having their baby pop out?

	23-12-2003 09:11									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Amen! Sick bunch of perverts.

Pah. You people are just unnatural

	23-12-2003 09:15									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Joseph Well at lease the woman of the world will not have to worried about you hitting on them for sex.

Tell them to stop hitting on me, and we'll have consensus.

	23-12-2003 09:39									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Even as implied joke - what exactly do you think that means? Sticking someone in a "cloning machine" and having their baby pop out?

Not really. Evidently that would be an oversimplification, the proper cells (or whatever is required) would have to go through an appropiate process and that'd take a reasonable time/cost and so on. It wouldn't be so simple. And of course there's the mental/moral issue of a potentially long chain of people being their own fathers/mothers/etc., which would be rather a weird and touchy subject (hey, the current debates about this kind of thing *are* messy already, even if it's all just talk).....

Some of the other alternatives mentioned in this thread are quite a bit more feasible anyways....

	23-12-2003 09:48									#26
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have they solved the aging problem in cloning yet? I believe Dolly the sheep aged prematurely.

Solving the aging problem could be tough. But not impossible. But if you solve the agin problem, you essentually could create something to make humans nearly immortal. So clones would be useless anyways.

	23-12-2003 09:57									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Zylka Hey - so what exactly goes on if the baby and mother aren't sharing blood? I always wondered how some infants come out with HIV if the mother has, yet with this confirmation I wonder how alcohol in the host blood system makes it's way to the infant, as the stuff absorbs like lightning.

Oxygen and carbon dioxide easily diffuse across a thin cellular membrane very much like they do in the lung. Many nutrients and waste products do too, though some require active transport across the membrane.

Some viruses can cross the membrane too. The seperation isn't always perfect, which may explain how Rh - mothers can become sensitized to their Rh + babies blood.

	23-12-2003 20:40									#28
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I witnessed the birth of my son, and while very exciting, it WAS disgustig!

I still have a still image in my brain of all the vivid colours. Especially as the use a huge fluorescent light to make things easier to see.

Well guess the good thing is that the memory of childbirth (the pain portion) fades for a woman or there would be a lot of single kids around.

	23-12-2003 20:50									#29
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C-sections are way more disgusting than vaginal births. They basically cut the woman open, pull out a bunch of organs and pile them out of the way, cut open the uterus and pull the child out. Then they have to sew up the uterus, put the organs back in, and then sew up the incision. And to think the poor woman is awake for the whole thing.

I'd much rather watch the child pop out the proper way.

	23-12-2003 21:44									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Solving the aging problem could be tough. But not impossible. But if you solve the agin problem, you essentually could create something to make humans nearly immortal. So clones would be useless anyways.

Problem is the aging of the DNA. It's been awhile since I took biology courses, but basically all DNA have bits of info on them, and when they divide some bits are lost at the ends. Since they have plenty of extras it's not a problem until later in life. But when the useful 'bits' start to be lost in cellular division, aging and cancer are the results.