08-01-2004 21:58									#31
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First try, defeat after 284 turns after psilons, sakkra and silicoid declared war on me after I was framed (had 3 treaties with psilon and sakkra before that).
Pity, I really was lucky with events, getting all of robo-miners, battlestation and powered armor due to event and also graviton beam and class V shields and my HW was upgraded to rich. In addition though only shortly before the end I got that leader that gives all androids. Might have traded those nicely if I hadn't been at war with everyone.
Didn't help though against the combined might of those races.

	08-01-2004 22:20									#32
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turn 75, met trilarians, got all 3 treaties, theres a hyperspace flux going on.

turn 131, class 1 shields, fusion beams, salvaged.

turn 141, traded for biospheres and reinforced hull with klackon, gave away all tech i had(theyd steal it anyway).

turn 164, found orion.

turn 195, met the cats, got both treaties.

turn 198, met the darlocks, they are repulsive.

turn 206, got a nap with the cats.

turn 257, the Darlocks successfully cancel my trade treaties with the Klackon, and they are about to declare war.

these games all seem to be following a similar pattern.
Oh well, eventually the random number generator will just give it to me.

	09-01-2004 02:00									#33
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after about 6 tries, I got a game where the random number generators all fell into place, I have a game where i just took orion, which pretty much means victory, except it didnt give me damper fields or xentronium.

Psilons,humans,alkalari,bullrathi. the pansy brigade spawned in this game :P.

So far, i'd say that this is easier then the -1/2 food,-1 prod,-1 sci, pw, cybernetic game.

	09-01-2004 02:39									#34
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Third try looked good, but Psilon won vote after 418 turns.

	09-01-2004 03:29									#35
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the only way to defeat a vote is to grab enough systems to do so(use outposts to mark territory), the only way this won't lead to genocidal war is if the silicoids aren't in the game :P

	09-01-2004 04:18									#36
	Remove this text

I did manage that in my 4th game, but shortly before I really got the economy pumping, I had deep core mine, robo and auto factory, the meklars attacked with ships equipped with autorepair units. I lost the battle by 2 battleships and a titan only (it was 7 battleships of mine vs 8 titans and 10 battleships).
I was once only a few votes away from getting voted myself though, I had the largest population during that time.

	09-01-2004 08:11									#37
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I'll try the second race tommorrow, but the positives aren't the problem there, its the uncreative/feudal/phw thats the problem :P.

	09-01-2004 12:35									#38
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I looked for positives that get negated in "impossible" setting.

Especially since atleast 1-2 races are repulsive

I hope you are playing this on the later version where the AI is a bit mroe hostile that the timid earlier versions.


You say it's easier but it's not. Just notice that the same difficulties keep popping up.

	09-01-2004 20:18									#39
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It is easier than phw, -1industry, -1food, -1research, cyb.
The positives here still help, they just often don't help enough.

	09-01-2004 21:46									#40
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why not 8 players though Brutalisk?

	10-01-2004 01:22									#41
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5 players in a large galaxy -> ensure the killer races such as sakkra and silicoid grow strong enough while at the same time you are forced into early enough contact with atleast 2 races. That serves to stop your expansion.


8 races would also allow you far too much itneraction and that would work in your favour.

Iasius: i picked stuff that don't make you any stronger as you progress. I also picked stuff that don't allow you to become strong in ANY of the combat fields And uncreative ofcourse ensures you have trouble with technology. The plus research in the feudal is like shooting yourself on the foot

And I wonder why people pick Low G as one of their negative picks. I consider it one of the worst possible negative picks. Which is why my second challenge had it included.


Just keep trying and tell me if you guys make it. (and on what turn)

	10-01-2004 02:41									#42
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I almost always take lowg. Why? Because I often take telepathic so the combat option is moot. You get the same - on Heavy G planets as regular G races do, and you can get planetary grav generator pretty quickly.

	10-01-2004 06:30									#43
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LowG sufers more than a combat hit on any planet that is not low grav. Sincve there thends to be lots of planets that are not low-G you will suffer until you get the grav gen and built it on that planet. Research it is an issue for non-creative as they have to choose only one tech in the list.

	10-01-2004 07:52									#44
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8 players also means the mean races gobble up more land, in 1 game where the silicoids managed to get a council win, they grabbed the meklar & cat stuff.
In addition it garuntees that the evil race will be present.

	10-01-2004 13:27									#45
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If you do not plan to expand at all then low g can be good enough ... of course it is a pain for the expansionistic races

	10-01-2004 13:29									#46
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Precicely my point vxma. LowG is bad not because of the weaker troops but because you lose 25% of EVERYTHING until youg et that generator, because most planets are normal or HG. VERY FEW are LowG.

By the time you get it, you will have lost too much ground really... Having lowg, in my opinion, is like trying to run with crutches(spel?).


Whoha: 8 races means you don't need to expand much, whereas with 5 you have to expand.

	10-01-2004 14:22									#47
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Brutalisk the turtle style is what bakalov uses for the creative race, so he does not care about the Low-g as he will not be going anywhere for a long time and pays no penalty for his HW.

You can of course use any traits as you please, but I just wanted to be sure to note the penalty for any that may have forgotten it.
The troop part is actually trivial.

	10-01-2004 15:33									#48
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One of the things I used to "specialise" in, was killing creative races.

Those are 8 picks that I would use else where. Yeah, they are a huge benefit as they give you some MUCH-NEEDED techs whereas non-creative races (let alone uncreative ones) have to make some hard choices. I know it's always a race with the creative races - trying to kill them before they become too powerful. If you think about it though, choosing creative will make you an early target

I learned to play without having everything and thus use those 8 picks on other stuff.

At a time when most would go (years ago): uni-tol or dem-lith or creative, I was experimenting with other combinations...

	10-01-2004 22:59									#49
	Inflate your Upload Space

Dictatorship(0), Fantastic Traders(+4), Lucky(+3), Uncreative(-4), Low G(-5), Charismatic(+3), +1.0 BC money(+8), +20 ship attack

charasmatic doesn't fit with that setup, did you want to include phw?

	10-01-2004 23:10									#50
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I'm sure most are quite at home playing a number of races. I do not find creative to be a big plus. It is just another way to play the game, not better, not easier, just different.

The choices are mostly not that hard, because you know what they are and what you must pick before you get there. About the only really hard chocie for me, is when I have an all radiated planets start (other than HW) and I use food. To take shields or rad shields in that case is painful.

	11-01-2004 05:50									#51
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That's the point. If you take rad shield, you have to then wait until Shield V and even then there are other choices to be made

But you can always try and steal some of the technologies from the creative

	12-02-2004 07:32									#52
	Inflate your Upload Space

You cybernetic-bashers are not thinking clearly. Let me spell it out in really basic terms for you:

A planet can produce anywhere from zero to three food per farmer (base), usually zero, and anywhere from 1 to 8 industry per worker, usually three. With uber-technology, you can increase food production by up to 4 per farmer (soil enrich + weather machine + Biofungi) plus six automatic (Hydro and sub farms), whereas Industry can be increased by 7 per worker (Auto factory + Robo miners + Microlite + Deep Core) and 35-50 automatic (Auto factory + Robo miners + Robo Factory + Deep Core) depending on mineral density. Furthermore, the production-enhancers come at much lower tech levels than the food-enhancers, so you get them sooner. Ergo, industry is MUCH easier to produce than food. Ergo, it is better to eat industry than food.

Put another way, 12 population units with NO technology or racial attributes, on their homeworld, would normally require that 6 people go to Farming, leaving 6 free; however, if the same twelve colonists were Cybernetic, then you'd only have to put 3 in Farming and 2 in Industry, leaving 7 free. When this race decides to colonize other planets, they will soon discover that most planets produce the same amount of Industry per worker as their home planet, but much less food, making them wish even more for the ability to consume Industry instead of food. And when they have reached 650 RPs in all trees, they will notice that the combined +3 industry per worker from factories and mining plants outweighs the +1 food per farmer from Soil Enrichment, and the combined automatic 15 industry from the same factories and miner plants outweighs the paltry 2 food from Hydroponic Farms.

This ability, boys and girls, is a freaking GODSEND.

Oh yeah, there's also the ability to repair your ships in combat, which can single-handedly win wars.

Cybernetic rocks. I'd take it over Subterranean any day, mostly because I can import captured Sakkra to my non-Sakkra colonies, but that's not important...

	18-05-2004 14:34									#53
	Increase the size of your Attachments

My dream is about to become true... win impossible, prewarp, with a -10 picks race (LG, -20% ShDeff, -10% Spy).

It's now turn 500+ and I have already more than 1/3 of the votes (cannot lose).
It will take some time to win because every system has the Warp Dissipator
and with Gaias + AdvCityPlan, the planets pop. are hard to keep quiet/convert.

I wonder what the score will be with a 340% factor !!!!

	18-05-2004 23:51									#54
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Dry: Why don't you try the "settings" I put forward in this thread instead ? And let me know when/if you make it

Sparky: cybernetic -> well play multiplayer and you'll see why you need production bud.

	19-05-2004 07:48									#55
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You generally produce more production then food though, so cybernetic is a slight +production pick.

There are better +prod picks though so its an opertunity cost isnt it?

	19-05-2004 10:06									#56
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Something like this:

Race -6 Repulsive -2 Ship Attack -2 Ground Combat
Huge universe (173 colonies)
PreWarp tech Organic Rich Antaran On
340% (24 picks left)
Start 1 system, one planet

Time 499 turns 781 pts
5385 pop 5385 pts (? not housed)
6 players elim 300 pts
tech 262 pts
154 captured 154 pts
antarans 250 pts
100 orion 100 pts
score 7155*340 24327 pts


You can push this up by blowing up bad planets and using AP to create better ones or semi infinite captures.

	19-05-2004 12:24									#57
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quote: "340% (24 picks left)"

I get the feeling that you put 4 picks out of your pocket in there...

	19-05-2004 14:39									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Brutalisk Dry: Why don't you try the "settings" I put forward in this thread instead ? And let me know when/if you make it

I will, I will. But let me finish this one first.
I tried the -10 picks challenge before seeing your post.

	19-05-2004 14:42									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Brutalisk I get the feeling that you put 4 picks out of your pocket in there...

A pocket called Evolutionary Mutation... I have a similar one.

	19-05-2004 14:49									#60
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quote: Originally posted by vmxa1 Something like this: ... antarans 250 pts ...

You're **** right, I completely forgot the Antarans option. me
I'll finish that game this evening and inform you next monday (no internet until then).