23-12-2003 13:15									#1
	In which JohnT goes grognard about grognards... Enter the AD-FREE zone

A month or two ago I bought Railroad Tycoon 3* and became involved in the forums over at Gathering.com. It's been a while since I've been interested enough in a computer game to actually spend time at their forums learning (and giving) tips - the last one was Civ2 and it brought me to this place (1999).

But the thing that really interests me are the people who don't like the game with a conviction and earnestness usually not seen outside church. Regardless of the real and imagined flaws that might exist in RRT3, I have to wonder: what sort of people is it that hang around message boards doing nothing but complain?

There's this one guy who did a VERY thorough analysis of why (in his opinion) RRT3 doesn't match up to another game - 5,500 words in total in just two posts. There are a number of people who think that it is in everybody's best interest to talk about how the game is "broken" in nearly every thread, regardless of topic

quote: "Can somebody tell me how to do X?" "If the game was properly coded and designed, X should be truly intuitive!"

For months! The same people do this for freakin' months! And then they get mad because the "patch" doesn't re-engineer the game to their specifications - and some of what they're asking, it's akin to *****ing to Blizzard because Starcraft is Real Time and you want it to be Turn Based and the patch didn't give you the option of making it RT or TB!

Yeah, one might feel like they wasted $50 - but then, that's why they release demos. And guess what? By the time your life is over a misguided $50 game purchase will likely be WAY ON DOWN your list of "Top-Dollar Items On Which I Wasted Big Bucks."

So what is it with people who have nothing better to do than to shiite over other people's enjoyment?

*There's a thread about RRT3 in Other Games if you care to talk about it there. I also created a pretty cool scenario for those of you with the game - if you're interested, please let me know and I can email it to you or link to one of the hosting sites.

	23-12-2003 13:31									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

it's nothing like your starcraft example. it would be more like making the build shortcuts "B, F" for each race's farm, regardless of it's name.

	23-12-2003 13:35									#3
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Naw, my Starcraft example is spot on. Some people prefer the RRT2 economic model and are demanding that Pop-Top re-program RRT3 as so to give them the option of playing with either economic models - a massive programming undertaking, one not to be done in a mere patch.

	23-12-2003 13:36									#4
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Regardless, the strengths and/or weaknesses of RRT3 is not the purpose of this thread. I'm just... whining about... whiners.

	23-12-2003 13:38									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

ah, when i read intuitive, i instinctly thought UI. just finished a class on it.

my mistake

	23-12-2003 15:20									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Indeed, people can get almost as zealot as I am when they talk about games.

Now seriously, I have seen similar things at other places. We just have to live with it.

	23-12-2003 15:21									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

RRT3 sucks ass.

But because it sucks so much, the forums must be even worse, so I avoid them at all costs.

The engine for RRT3 just blows, it angers me. Ditto for Deus Ex II.

	23-12-2003 15:29									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Whiners make the world go forward.

They save time for the rest of us too
Every time I see a patch for a game I silently thank the relentless whiners who spend their time on the forums, getting annoyed over a game - for free. It is true love by them

JohnT I don't know if you followed the development of Civ 3 or even SMAC, this community also has it's whiners, some of which have already posted in this thread , some of which have already became legends but don't post anymore.

In all, don't be so harsh on whiners, they are a constant of all forums and a benchmark to measure our own "moderateness" against. You know, the bad cop and the good cop routine?

"You ****ing Firaxian bastard I will chop off your liver and eat it while I decapitate you and **** down your neck if you dont put a SCHOOL HOSPITAL M1ABRAMS TANK IN CIV 3 N*O*W, no make that YESTERDAY!!!!11!!! This game is a ripoff I hope it sinks at sales and YOUR CHILDREN STARVE you *******s!!!11!!!"

And then you have:

"Dear Firaxian employee see what nutcakes we have here? Don't pay attention to him. But you do agree the game is broken? Now if you could please fix this and this, it would be great! Great game btw!. Thanks"

	23-12-2003 15:42									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

What annoys me are the....sorta whiners. Those who acknowledge the flaws of the game and are angry they aren't being changed, but have little warnings inserted throughout their posts:

quote: Hi. Just before I begin, I want everyone to know I bought the game and ill buy the next one! That said: -A sucks -B sucks -C1 and C3 suck as well. They really need to fix this because of 1, 2, 3, and 4. I'll buy the game regardless, but they REALLY need to fix them. Blah blah for 200 more words. Anyway, I love GameCorp and I'll buy their products! I just hope they fix this because its REALLY gamebreaking!

In fact....Ive seen a ton of it in the Civ3 fora

	23-12-2003 17:57									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

@Tass.

So, do you say they've changed the economy? that's a shame.

	23-12-2003 18:05									#11
	Re: In which JohnT goes grognard about grognards... Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by JohnT So what is it with people who have nothing better to do than to shiite over other people's enjoyment?

Well, you're definitely asking the correct audience.

	23-12-2003 18:14									#12
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Asher Ditto for Deus Ex II.

I've been trying to play the demo for Deus Ex, but everytime I install it I get a message saying that "Flesh failed to initialize."

I tried contacting the Eidos support page but they've concocted this neat sort of loop in which the support page gives you the option to select a game, then once you've selected a game you're taken to the home page for the game, which has a button for the support page, which takes you to the page where you select a game, which takes you back to that game's home page.....

	23-12-2003 18:21									#13
	Got spare money?

Eidos sucks... they are such a horrible publisher.

	23-12-2003 18:24									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Well thanks fellow Apolytoners. I won't be getting this game.

	23-12-2003 18:27									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: I tried contacting the Eidos support page but they've concocted this neat sort of loop in which the support page gives you the option to select a game, then once you've selected a game you're taken to the home page for the game, which has a button for the support page, which takes you to the page where you select a game, which takes you back to that game's home page.....

the bastards! I get this in a lot of sites, btw.

	23-12-2003 18:33									#16
	Inflate your Upload Space

Apolyton could do that, but it seems that some people never leave anyway, so it's probably not worth it.

That's like receiving spam promising to cut the amount of spam in your inbox.

	23-12-2003 18:38									#17
	Re: In which JohnT goes grognard about grognards... Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by JohnT So what is it with people who have nothing better to do than to shiite over other people's enjoyment?

It makes them feel better.

It is far easier to destroy than create.

Any ****ing idiot can criticiza. It takes hard work to create anything, even if it doesn't work properly.

How many of these whingers have written 1 line of code, designed even 1 3D model or written one paragraph of a manual correctly without using a spellchecker.

In short; "Nature is bountiful when it comes to idiots" (T Pratchett).

	23-12-2003 19:48									#18
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Heh, John, you must not have hung out in the CivIII forums following its release. Oh, the wonders of whiner-fanboy vitriol! It was awful.

-Arrian

p.s. Thanks for the response in the "other games" forum... but I was actually trying to ask a different question (my fault, I wasn't clear).

Last edited by Arrian on 23-12-2003 at 19:56

	23-12-2003 20:42									#19
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't have any problem with criticism - it is necessary, of course. And much of the criticism is valid, much is persnickity (this button should be HERE!), some is little more than preference, and some is just good old fashioned whining.

But, if you don't like something why spend months of your life telling the world how much you didn't like it?

	23-12-2003 20:47									#20
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

It's all about expectations. People get their hopes up to impossibly high levels, and then feel like they've been "betrayed" by the game developer when the game doesn't match those expectations upon release. That leads to bitterness, and in some cases people are bored enough that they will spend hours *****ing about it. :shrug:

-Arrian

	23-12-2003 21:07									#21
	Increase Your PM Length

Same thing about Civ3 in the Civ3 General Forum. Remember Libertarian? He devoted his life to bashing Civ3...like many other posters.

Spec.

	23-12-2003 21:16									#22
	Increase Your PM Length

It's just that some people have to go on and on and on.

If the game sucks that much, just throw it in the bin and move on - it's only a game.

But then not everyone has a life.

	29-12-2003 08:46									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Wait...you mfer! Not everyone has a little dauther tp elp lend perspective or a family bizness soparopera!!!

Some pf us have tpo make do with curisng gaming companies and with wannabe milatry posts cursiong GEROEDBUS!!!

	29-12-2003 17:21									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

JohnT:
Your post reminded me the release of Civ3 soooo much. We had tons of whiners, including the professional ones: Coracle, Jimmytrick, Venger, Libertarian... All of them contributed greatly to the cause of whining, and I think they should even outrank Stefu in the course for the Stalin Award.

One special mention should go to Coracle, who continued to whine for a whole year after all others had finally given up

	29-12-2003 17:28									#25
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Spec Same thing about Civ3 in the Civ3 General Forum. Remember Libertarian? He devoted his life to bashing Civ3...like many other posters. Spec.

Ah, those were good times. Good times indeed. :nostalgia:

	29-12-2003 17:40									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: But then not everyone has a life.

Life? What is this, erm, life, which you are talking about? Is it some kind of tasty food? Dell's new model? Following OS by MS?

	29-12-2003 18:03									#27
	Re: In which JohnT goes grognard about grognards... Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by JohnT quote: "Can somebody tell me how to do X?" "If the game was properly coded and designed, X should be truly intuitive!" For months! The same people do this for freakin' months! And then they get mad because the "patch" doesn't re-engineer the game to their specifications - and some of what they're asking, it's akin to *****ing to Blizzard because Starcraft is Real Time and you want it to be Turn Based and the patch didn't give you the option of making it RT or TB!

Yeah, my favourite kind of complaint is similar "Why is feature xy working this way? It should rather work like in game abc!!! Change it at once, or IŽll hate you andŽll post that in every thread here, if it fits or not, along with dozens of thumps-down smilies! Take THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

You wouldnŽt believe what you missed all the years where you didnŽt visit game fora.

	29-12-2003 19:00									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by VJ Life? What is this, erm, life, which you are talking about? Is it some kind of tasty food? Dell's new model? Following OS by MS?

It's just a game. And a buggy one too :dointnow!:

	29-12-2003 19:11									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Sometimes it is possible to rack up posts and join in the silliness without even playing or owning the game. Like with Civ3. Lots of fun trolling the combat whiners...

	29-12-2003 19:52									#30
	Remove this text

Well, should we start the Civ 4 bashing now or wait until a finished product?