24-12-2003 06:45									#1
	Do you use the Palace Jump Exploit? Inflate your Upload Space

Lets get a headcount..

	24-12-2003 07:51									#2
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I have the stupidest reason why I don't use the palace jump exploit/strategy....so stupid that I'm embarrased to post why.

It is a viable strategy to build up your kingdom in stages...especially if you conquered a foreign land.

	24-12-2003 08:13									#3
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No I don't allow myself that one. I have no problem with others using so no need to defend it.

	24-12-2003 08:50									#4
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No, but I hardly ever move my palace (I sometimes rebuild on deity where I need all the help I can get ). It's an emotional thing though.

So,no, never use the palace jump exploit.

	24-12-2003 10:26									#5
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What is the exploit? I don't even know what it is. But if its what I think it is:

quote: OFFICER Inform the commander that Lord Vader's shuttle has arrived. OPERATOR Yes, sir. JERJERROD Lord Vader, this is an unexpected pleasure. We're honored by your presence. VADER You may dispense with the pleasantries, Commander. I'm here to put you back on schedule. JERJERROD I assure you, Lord Vader, my men are working as fast as they can. VADER Perhaps I can find new ways to motivate them. JERJERROD I tell you, this station will be operational as planned. VADER The Emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation. JERJERROD But he asks the impossible. I need more men. VADER Then perhaps you can tell him when he arrives. JERJERROD (aghast) The Emperor's coming here? VADER That is correct, Commander. And he is most displeased with your apparent lack of progress. JERJERROD We shall double our efforts.

	24-12-2003 10:53									#6
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I have never used it, but that is because I've never had cause to. I don't think it's an exploit because there is a lot of micromanagement involved and you have to give up the city to jump your capitol.

	24-12-2003 11:45									#7
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it's an exploit. flat out.

it takes 100+ turns to build a palace in a mildly corrupt city, and you cant chop / disband to speed it up.

it's SUPPOSED to take EFFORT to move the palace. disbanding a city to get a free move is EXPLOITING THE RULES OF THE GAME.

1. you should not be able to disband your capital (IMHO)
2. the whole "free replacement palace" is CRAP. in civ2 you had to rebuild it, and it was awesome. if DC were captured tonight, i'm sure thered be a bit of time before it jumped all the way to NY or somewhere.

	24-12-2003 13:15									#8
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I agree it should not be possible to move the palace. I like it when you lose if you lose your capitol. Just give it an extra defensive bonus.

	24-12-2003 15:04									#9
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Yes, it's a banana and I exploit it.

	24-12-2003 21:08									#10
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It's not unheard of from countries to relocate their capital. In fact, it happens frequently.

I can recall Brasil building Brasilia to move the capital there in 1960 IIRC.

USA moved it's capital a few times.
West Germany from Bonn to Berlin.
China has moved it's capital on many occassions through the ages.
Japan moved it's capital.
Israel has attempted to move from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, but I don't think that really happened yet (not internationally recognized)

I'm sure there are other examples, that's just off the top of my head.

So, I don't mind the possibility in the game...but I do like the cost being high to do it. You can always rush with a MGL if it's that important.

	24-12-2003 21:52									#11
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I've never worked out what this strategy is. Please explain!

It's true, though, that in real life it doesn't take decades to move a capital. In addition to Shogun Gunner's examples, the Romans moved their capital from Rome to New Rome (Constantinople) in 330, and Peter the Great moved the Russian capital to St Petersburg in the early eighteenth century. In both cases these were brand new cities, which under Civ3 rules would never have been able to build a palace in under a couple of centuries.

	24-12-2003 22:59									#12
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1. I never feel a need to abandon such a well-developed core.
2. I'm not willing to work that hard to be able to predict/force where it jumps to.

	24-12-2003 23:17									#13
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Like Ducki. Never felt the need to leave behind all that hard work put into getting everything in the core right the first time

That goes for moving the palace at all - even before exploits
I'm sure the big players know some way to move it AND get some good from it...but I'm yet to use it

	25-12-2003 00:01									#14
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some dork made a forumla which tells you where the capital jumps to. all i remember is that bigger = better, but im sure distance, culture, etc, all have an impact.

when civ becomes entirely mathematics, you've lost touch with the game.

	25-12-2003 00:07									#15
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Shogun Gunner we are only talking about the game. Moving the capitol is very expensive in real life. You need to aquire land, clear it of structures and build new government buildings.

Here they really get it for next to nothing and they had planned to do it all along. Moving the capitol under war condition is a different matter, since it does not reward you, you only get to survive.

I like it in games like Disciples II if your capitol falls, its lights out.

	25-12-2003 00:47									#16
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True vmxa1, but I assume that cost in the game is well represented since it's on the scale of a wonder in terms of shields. That seems about right.

I never do the palace jump because I become emotionally attached to my core cities. Silly, I know. But I'm a traditionalist.

	25-12-2003 01:26									#17
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I do it when the start area is poorly situated relative to the near-by land mass. Then I use the 1st city as a camp and disband it when the new capitol is ready.

	25-12-2003 01:48									#18
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An added incentive not to move is, if you find say, for example, your palace is now on the western-most of 5 small island-like masses you own - it still won't do too much damage due to the way 'optimal cities' pans out. Quite frightening really...

See C3C Rise of Rome, Sassanids for a example of this idea. Despite being so far-flung, the far away cities - which you'd normally expect to be hammered - are still surprisingly fruitful!

I've tried it both-ways with the maths issue. Once upon a time I tried to squeeze every possible inch out of every game, at which point it became dull. Then I ditched maths almost completely in favour of playing 'enjoyably', and suddenly found I was inept

Painful nasty balance. Find your own match...let the other suckers fight it out

Anyway, on-topic - palace jump = trash
*awaits flames*

	25-12-2003 05:01									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Plotinus In addition to Shogun Gunner's examples, the Romans moved their capital from Rome to New Rome (Constantinople) in 330, and Peter the Great moved the Russian capital to St Petersburg in the early eighteenth century. In both cases these were brand new cities, which under Civ3 rules would never have been able to build a palace in under a couple of centuries.

maybe they discovered a technology first and rush-built the palaces with a scientific leader?

	25-12-2003 06:00									#20
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There's two parts to your questions.

NO, I think it is NOT an exploit...otherwise, Firaxis would have fixed it with a patch by now. If it's in the game, and the game designer allows it to remain there after surely noticing discussion of it, then it's not an exploit, but a feature.

NO, I do NOT use it. I've got better things to do than dig up the formula and attempt to beat my way through it.

	25-12-2003 06:12									#21
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The palace should be a unit that has to be physically moved to its new location, and would not be able to take advantage of railroads.

	25-12-2003 07:12									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley The palace should be a unit that has to be physically moved to its new location, and would not be able to take advantage of railroads.

As one part of the whole, absolutely brilliant!

	25-12-2003 09:18									#23
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Hmm, capturable palace?
Or maybe, like treasure goodies, escorted? (fun idea of a pikeman shoving a palace in his back pocket :P )

	25-12-2003 14:34									#24
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Not an exploit, don't use it.


I hate the instant relocation idea though anyway.

	25-12-2003 18:29									#25
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I have used it at times, but the amount of planning and calculation required (I was always taught mathematicians were lazy by trade) means that it must be REALLY worth it, ie there is no chance of an MGL anytime soon and I need the Palace elsewhere really badly.

	26-12-2003 04:15									#26
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A thought, sorry if it's come up already.

Is there not a tiny risk that someone may try and pull the palace-jump stunt in 'age of discovery'?
The advantage of the VP victory and tech, while also being based in the New World or the African mines?

At which point, you can quickly knock up your TRUE empire in, say, the Americas...?

	26-12-2003 22:39									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Cerbykins A thought, sorry if it's come up already. Is there not a tiny risk that someone may try and pull the palace-jump stunt in 'age of discovery'? The advantage of the VP victory and tech, while also being based in the New World or the African mines? At which point, you can quickly knock up your TRUE empire in, say, the Americas...?

Yes, it has been done by some people in SP and it works, particularly for a quick finish at the end if you are close to enough VP's.

It's a question of honour in a SP scenario like that. If you have to do it you haven't really beaten the game. In MP you would probably find everyone else walking away. I'd certainly think twice about another game with someone who pulled that trick.

	26-12-2003 23:45									#28
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I do it in a large percentage of games. I used to feel slightly guilty when it was discovered, but palace bumping is a skill in itself, and acts as a failsafe for those who are too unlucky to get leaders.

	27-12-2003 01:04									#29
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Seeing as THIS is -definitely- an exploit of how the scenario is played, I won't be touching it with a ten-foot bargepole

In the meantime....Firaxis know what they must do....simply make place lost more fatal, and drop the cost for players without one to start with!

*joins the 'down with palace jump' club*

	27-12-2003 02:39									#30
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Ok, now I know what you guys are talking about.

I wouldn't use this anyways. What's the point? Disbanding your capitol just to move the palace? Doesn't sound like a good idea.