24-12-2003 12:04									#1
	The Civilization Emergency Management Agency Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Have you ever had something go horribly wrong where as you started your turn, half your civilization was ready to riot? For example, loss of vital luxuries, or an increase in war weariness? That's where the Civilization Emergency Management Agency can help.

The way it works is that when the first city riots (or when you first realize that riots are going to be widespread). you zoom to the city that's rioting and then use the arrows to check the rest of your cities. Where necessary, arrange entertainment. That way you can keep the number of cities where production grinds to a halt to a minimum.

In a way, it's a cheap trick. But on the other hand, if the game were designed better (or at least what I consider better), riots would never take you by surprise in the first place. So I view CEMA's activities more as compensating for a shortcoming in the game's design than as a sort of cheating.

Nathan

P.S. I'm going out of town for about a week and a half, and I may or may not be around Apolyton any during that time.

	24-12-2003 12:28									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

So we may feel free to flame your cheatin' ass! Yahoo!

Have a good trip, Nathan.

	24-12-2003 12:46									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

thats cheating.

if you set the govoners to control citizen moods, you never go into disorder, but it's a b1tch to change tiles.

	24-12-2003 13:08									#4
	Increase Your PM Length

I disagree that it is cheating. The player is using functions built into the game to react to changed circumstances. It is up to you to be the player that you can be, and not a victim of circumstance.

	24-12-2003 13:09									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

It sounds like you are calling for a more reliable and understandable govenor and if so I am all for it.

I think Moo3 devs were in touch with Firaxis on that issue and they want you to fight with your advisors. Then OTOH if the govs were doing a bang up job, it would be tough to beat the game at high levels.

	24-12-2003 21:14									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I don't think that's cheating either. I totally agree that there should be a indicated under one of the advisor's screens (domestic I guess) that should give you some indication about upcoming unhappines. At least the predictable situations. The computer can't predict if an AI is going to attack and you lose a luxury because of that.

Maybe I'm lazy, but I don't check each city, every turn, to make sure it doesn't go into disorder. I also don't use governors. Hence the surprise rioting, etc.

Nice solution to zoom and scan cities. I plan on doing that now. I will cristen my own CEMA. But I might merge them into my CTSA (Civilization Transportation Security Administration), which will be merged into my DCHS (Defense of Civilization Homeland Security). I'm going to do this all with no new budgets...

	24-12-2003 23:26									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

For all the 'pre-emptive' goodies the AI pulls, it's only fair we have one or two

And there's nothing there than couldn't be done with the governor. I would trust him on much, but I leave him citizen moods, so I got one less thing to worry about. In the present climate, where I'm busy re-claiming all the jobs I used to trust the AI with , it's one thing I'm reasonably sure it can't muck up. It could tell me when it's putting entertainers out, but other than that, fine for me

	24-12-2003 23:59									#8
	Tired of ads?

... i dont think the game designers ever intended that to be used in such a fashion.

and if you allow that, whats stopping someone from doing it and changing production / rushing things before that city has been popped off the queue?

	25-12-2003 00:01									#9
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Not sure if I follow as it standard to keep an eye on the population and use entertainers to keep them in line.

Several things are tip offs to make the rounds. Switching governments, lost an imported lux or lost due to war. Long term wars and cities growing next turn and so on.

I try to be aware of these events and use a preventative action to avoid rioting. It is fairly easy until you get to metros and large empires. How is it cheating to pay attention?

	25-12-2003 00:03									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

not to pay attention.

when you hit end turn, you are saying "i have paid attention, and this is how i want it". if you go into civil disorder, THEN IT'S YOUR FAULT.

	25-12-2003 01:20									#11
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: and if you allow that, whats stopping someone from doing it and changing production / rushing things before that city has been popped off the queue?

What is wrong with that? Again, you are using features of the software.

quote: ... i dont think the game designers ever intended that to be used in such a fashion.

Then why are those city scrolling buttons still active after all this time?

I would agree that some things possible with this would be 'cheating'. Changing WF off a couple mines, then going forward to a close by city to put WF on those now vacant mines. That would result in the same tile being worked twice, or more, for shields. That would be cheating.

However, changing builds, rushing them, taking WF off into entertainers... these things are not cheating; they are playing the game using the tools provided by the designers.

	25-12-2003 01:57									#12
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Uber KruX not to pay attention. when you hit end turn, you are saying "i have paid attention, and this is how i want it". if you go into civil disorder, THEN IT'S YOUR FAULT.

Ok are we talking about reloading and then preventing roiting? If so then I would agree, that is cheating. I was talking about the symptoms that you know are precursors to it, not after the fact.

If I hit the end turn and I come up with unrest, then I fix it and I take the hit for being careless, what else can I do? I lost a turn of production in that city. I am very careful about that in wonder cities in the early part of the game, as the game is near the end, I will shine it on sometimes. So I lose some production in a corrupt city, oh well.

Maybe I am not on the same page here, would not be the first.

	25-12-2003 18:21									#13
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

vmxa - I may be misunderstanding your post, but Uber is talking not about reloading to prevent riots, but about the express use of entering a city screen for a city that has gone into disorder, fixing it and then scrolling through every city to check for disorder in other cities to fix it before the disorder happens ingame.

Why should this be a cheat at all? You are doing nothing that you couldn't do before the turn ends, and there's a limit to the amount of micromanagement I can take. Sometimes I have zillions of cities or I just can't be bothered checking EVERYthing every turn. If disorder comes up, I will check using this frequently. Now I agree that rearranging wf in nearby cities to get two or more uses out of certain tiles (if this works) is doing something you couldn't normally do in the game, and thus a bit of a cheat (if not a very serious one).

However, in MP both of these are some things that have to be decided on first.

	26-12-2003 01:09									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt vmxa - I may be misunderstanding your post, but Uber is talking not about reloading to prevent riots, but about the express use of entering a city screen for a city that has gone into disorder, fixing it and then scrolling through every city to check for disorder in other cities to fix it before the disorder happens ingame.

Ok, that is what I thought, so what is wrong with that? I seldom use that as I said, I am looking at the cities for things such as they just popped a new citizen, so I need to up the slider or make a specialist. But you do over look it from time to time. When see it you go to all the cities and make sure they are cool, what else can you do? You can't ignore it.