26-12-2003 02:24									#1
	Should Apolyton Ratify This Treaty? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Preamble: Apolyton and Fanatiku hereby fully agree to this historic treaty in spirit and in deed, we fully agree to the following terms of this alliance. Specific terms: Tech = Technology Party = one of the members of this agreement ___________________________ I - Diplomatic Co-operation Before starting a conflict, both nations shall consult the other in an attempt to form a diplomatic or military agreement about the issue involved. Both shall faithfully try to aid the other in settling disputes with foreign powers where possible. Neither nation shall plot against the other with any foreign nation. Both nations shall respect the laws and customs of the other, and shall treat each other will respect and courtesey. Any grievances between players or representatives involving both teams shall be diplomaticly handled by the leadership of both teams, and if the matter cannot be solved internally, both teams pledge to keep the individuals in conflict apart in order to further the greater good, which is the continued well-being of this alliance. ___________________________ II - Technological Parity Both nations pledge to share with the other what tech is being researched and what tech is planned to be researched. Both nations will faithfully attempt to never cross-research or compete by researching the same tech. Both nations prioritize trades with each other, prefering trades with an ally than with another party. The two parties of this pact are to combine their economic power to enable the best possible research rate. Both nations will show full disclosure on their economic situation, and act accordingly. Any technology researched cooperatively is to be shared between the nations of this pact. If a no-trade treaty disallows sharing of the received tech in question, the technology cannot be shared. ___________________________ III - Right of Passage Both nations agree to allow the naval units of either nation to travel in the cultural borders of the other nation. However, before sending in any group of ships larger than two, either nation must inform the other of the size and nature of the naval group, and ask permission before entering the coastal waters of the other Neither nation shall enter the land inside the cultural borders, or any mutually agreed on borders, of the other without prior approval. ___________________________ IV - Homeland Security Both nations agree that no other nation shall have cities or units on our continent. Should another nation land units on our continent, build cities, or aquire cities, both nations pledge to use whatever means necessary (including diplomacy and force) to remove them. Any exceptions to this rule must be explicitly agreed upon by both nations. ___________________________ V - Non-Agression Agreement Neither nation shall attack any unit of the other nation. Neither nation shall pillage the improvements of the other without prior approval. Neither nation shall intentionally block the movement of the other. If one party withdraws from the agreement, this section MUST remain until determined in section IX ___________________________ VI - Sharing of Military Intelligence In times of war, when both nations have a common enemy, all military intelligence about the enemy shall be freely shared. Should only one of the nations be at war, the other nation may perform intelligence gathering and espionage for the other, which shall be fully compensated by the nation at war. ___________________________ VII - Mutual Protection Agreement Should either nation be invaded by an outside party, the other nation is bound by this treaty to declare war on the attacker and remain at war until the alliance has negotiated a peace settlement or until the attacker no longer poses a direct threat to the ally. Once at war, each nation pledges to fully commit itself to the cause of war and to use all means at their disposal to promptly prosecute the war. Any cities captured by an enemy and recaptured by an ally shall be returned to the original owner of the city at a reasonable time. This alliance is defensive only. The allies may agree to jointly attack a third party, but if one ally decides to attack a third party and thereby start a war, the other is not obligated to also declare war, even if the third party later attacks the ally. Both nations are obliged not to impede on the other nation's war. ___________________________ VIII - Exterior Treaties and Agreements This alliance agreement does not preclude both nations from making additional deals, agreements, or pledges outside this agreement. Should any of those additional deals, agreements, or pledges be violated or broken, this agreement shall remain intact. No other treaty may contradict this alliance without approval from both parties. ___________________________ IX - Termination This treaty will terminate when one of the following is fulfilled: A) The two parties in this agreement are the only two parties remaining in the game B) One of the parties is destroyed. C) Both parties agree to withdraw from the agreement. If one party notifies the other that they wish to terminate the alliance, there shall be a 10 day period to renegotiate the alliance. If the alliance is not renegotiated in that time the alliance shall end, however Article IV and V shall remain in effect for both parties

This poll shall remain open for 5 days to give everyone time to read it and consider it.

This is the treaty that was posted in the CFC Alliance Drafting thread. this is the final version we agreed on in chat and is the one that CFC is currently voting on.

--Togas

	26-12-2003 04:26									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I voted Yea... but just how far can we trust CFC really... I mean really... they're our forum's-chief real-life enemy

	26-12-2003 04:37									#3
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

as long as we need to. Don't worry, we will still be srong compaired to them and we get stronger, even while we are "REXing like bunnies".

MoI E_T

	26-12-2003 06:47									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

[LotR rp] A holy alliance will struck between the nations of Rohan and Gondor! [/rp]


Well, CFC is not really Rohan- but then again- they do have riders! (and Goonie could be Grima... )

Anyway, this is a great opportunity for us- to leap forward in tech, REX in peace, and keep CFC at bay for as long as we can. I hope it works- and this treaty looks like something that would push things in the right direction for us.

Yes from me.

	26-12-2003 08:16									#5
	Remove this text

Hmmm, I have beeen a firm supporter of diplomatically establishing solid relations with CFC so we can focas on REX.

But Im kind of curious about this, If I read this correctly even after the treaty is canceled both sides are STILL bound to articles IV and V?

What if our war mongers do eventually get the upper hand, what do we do then?

Can one of the FAM guys explain this to me.

And no don't worry, Im not lining up with Big Free on this issue.

	26-12-2003 08:52									#6
	Get a bigger avatar today!

If the war mongers get the upperhand we just brake another treaty.

	26-12-2003 10:37									#7
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by conmcb25 But Im kind of curious about this, If I read this correctly even after the treaty is canceled both sides are STILL bound to articles IV and V? What if our war mongers do eventually get the upper hand, what do we do then?

We pretty much end up breaking the treaty.

There really wasn't much else we could do, they wanted a game-long alliance, we wanted something we could easily get out of. In the end, we can get out of all of it BUT the NAP.

So if our warmongers decide to attack CFC we break another treaty. Either that or, perhaps, we get them to agree to renegotiate it and make it less permanent after our REX is done.

Or, we annoy them enough that both parties agree to end the treaty. That's also an option.

On the bright side, it's CFC that wants the game-long unbreakable peace treaty. They do seem more worried about us than we are about them.

--Togas

	26-12-2003 11:33									#8
	Got spare money?

If we should ever attack and eliminate CFC, then diplomacy will change quite a bit. The game will be down to 3 teams (unless you want to include the corpse of GCA) and each will want to win. However, that puts the world in a very precarious situation and there can be no true balance of power without 1 civ becoming much stronger than the other two. If a team is willing to align themselves as the 1 in the 2 on 1 over a broken treaty then they sign their death warrant. Then again, GWT seems to already have done that.

	26-12-2003 18:48									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

we should definitely ratify this

	26-12-2003 20:52									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, ratify it.

	26-12-2003 21:22									#11
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm in favor of ratification. I think, in particular, that this was a well-written treaty. As stated in part by others, if we ever have a need to fight CFC, we'll essentially be starting Armaggedon. If you're going to take the step of starting Armaggedon, it doesn't much matter anymore if you break a treaty to do it.

I'm quite happy with this treaty.

	26-12-2003 21:43									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Ratify! Ratify! Ratify! :chant:

	27-12-2003 00:46									#13
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Yea, ratify! Very well-written treaty.

	28-12-2003 11:24									#14
	Increase Your PM Length

Who voted no? Was it BigFree?

	28-12-2003 11:41									#15
	Increase the size of your Attachments

CFC has ratified the alliance. I recieved this in email from GBM:

quote: Sign at the bottom of this message. Preamble: Apolyton and Fanatiku hereby fully agree to this historic treaty in spirit and in deed, we fully agree to the following terms of this alliance. Specific terms: Tech = Technology Party = one of the members of this agreement ___________________________ I - Diplomatic Co-operation Before starting a conflict, both nations shall consult the other in an attempt to form a diplomatic or military agreement about the issue involved. Both shall faithfully try to aid the other in settling disputes with foreign powers where possible. Neither nation shall plot against the other with any foreign nation. Both nations shall respect the laws and customs of the other, and shall treat each other will respect and courtesey. Any grievances between players or representatives involving both teams shall be diplomaticly handled by the leadership of both teams, and if the matter cannot be solved internally, both teams pledge to keep the individuals in conflict apart in order to further the greater good, which is the continued well-being of this alliance. ___________________________ II - Technological Parity Both nations pledge to share with the other what tech is being researched and what tech is planned to be researched. Both nations will faithfully attempt to never cross-research or compete by researching the same tech. Both nations prioritize trades with each other, prefering trades with an ally than with another party. The two parties of this pact are to combine their economic power to enable the best possible research rate. Both nations will show full disclosure on their economic situation, and act accordingly. Any technology researched co-operatively is to be shared between the two parties of this pact. ___________________________ III - Right of Passage Both nations agree to allow the naval units of either nation to travel in the cultural borders of the other nation. However, before sending in any group of ships larger than two, either nation must inform the other of the size and nature of the naval group, and ask permission before entering the coastal waters of the other Neither nation shall enter the land inside the cultural borders, or any mutually agreed on borders, of the other without prior approval. ___________________________ IV - Homeland Security Both nations agree that no other nation shall have cities or units on our continent. Should another nation land units on our continent, build cities, or aquire cities, both nations pledge to use whatever means necessary (including diplomacy and force) to remove them. Any exceptions to this rule must be explicitly agreed upon by both nations. ___________________________ V - Non-Agression Agreement Neither nation shall attack any unit of the other nation. Neither nation shall pillage the improvements of the other without prior approval. Neither nation shall intentionally block the movement of the other. If one party withdraws from the agreement, this section MUST remain until determined in section IX ___________________________ VI - Sharing of Military Intelligence In times of war, when both nations have a common enemy, all military intelligence about the enemy shall be freely shared. Should only one of the nations be at war, the other nation may perform intelligence gathering and espionage for the other, which shall be fully compensated by the nation at war. ___________________________ VII - Mutual Protection Agreement Should either nation be invaded by an outside party, the other nation is bound by this treaty to declare war on the attacker and remain at war until the alliance has negotiated a peace settlement or until the attacker no longer poses a direct threat to the ally. Once at war, each nation pledges to fully commit itself to the cause of war and to use all means at their disposal to promptly prosecute the war. Any cities captured by an enemy and recaptured by an ally shall be returned to the original owner of the city at a reasonable time. This alliance is defensive only. The allies may agree to jointly attack a third party, but if one ally decides to attack a third party and thereby start a war, the other is not obligated to also declare war, even if the third party later attacks the ally. Both nations are obliged not to impede on the other nation's war. ___________________________ VIII - Exterior Treaties and Agreements This alliance agreement does not preclude both nations from making additional deals, agreements, or pledges outside this agreement. Should any of those additional deals, agreements, or pledges be violated or broken, this agreement shall remain intact. No other treaty may contradict this alliance without approval from both parties. ___________________________ IX - Termination This treaty will terminate when one of the following is fulfilled: A) The two parties in this agreement are the only two parties remaining in the game B) One of the parties is destroyed. C) Both parties agree to withdraw from the agreement. If one party notifies the other that they wish to terminate the alliance, there shall be a 10 day period to renegotiate the alliance. If the alliance is not renegotiated in that time the alliance shall end, however Articles V and IX shall remain in effect for both parties. On behalf of the nation of Fanatikou, Gingerbread Man ratifies this agreement. On behalf of the nation of Apolytonia, ___________ ratifies this agreement.

I will email him back signed tomorrow.

	28-12-2003 13:08									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by MJW Who voted no? Was it BigFree?

Nope, not me. I did not vote in this poll.

	28-12-2003 17:52									#17
	Tired of ads?

* MrWhereItsAt carefully inks his name along with the 'Yea's

	29-12-2003 06:57									#18
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I think this paragraph:

quote: Neither nation shall enter the land inside the cultural borders, or any mutually agreed on borders, of the other without prior approval.

Should be moved or copied to Section V so that it remains in effect should the alliance part of the treaty be terminated under Section IX.

	29-12-2003 08:02									#19
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Too late, I sent the alliance back signed earlier today.

Besides, if we wanted to change things around then we would have to re-submit it to CFC, see if they agreed, then re-poll over the issue which isn't all that great.

If the alliance ends, then for all intents and purposes it will probably mean the end of CFC anyways.

	29-12-2003 10:01									#20
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh well. I like the alliance otherwise; here's hoping for peace.