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Eli
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Israel
Jul 2000
time: 07:32
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If it was real we would've heard about it. A lot. Everywhere.
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Ted Striker
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United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:32
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quote:
Dear Sir,
Finding a link to your page
(http://www.informationclearinghouse...article5365.htm) on a military and history board I frequently visit, I was (once
again) shocked by the savageness the US forces show in Iraq.
To introduce myself, I am a German student of history and English, I have
served in the German Forces and, as every patriot, I am proud of my country.
For me the United States always were a nation of great people. People who do
not hesitate to stand up for anything they believe in. Unfortunately however
it seems that certain lessons were not learned by your goverment. Especially
to mention the lession of deescalation and correct behaviour in an occupied
country. The fact that men like Capt. James Kimber and CWO2 Bryan M Simon
state your website and the presenting of the video as "devious" or "outraging"
simply shows that they do not know the most basic rules of the "Haager
Landkriegsordnung" (laws of landwarfare, constituted at the beginning of the 20th
century) and the Conventions of Geneve. I am not aware how US recruits are
schooled in terms of international law, but I would expect them to meat German
standards at least. Every German soldier, before even holding a rifle for the
first time is schooled in international law, law of war and war ethics. As the
US forces tend to be more likely involved in off country operations I would
consider it irresponsible to send young boys unschooled into war.
I am well aware that US soldiers receive less cultural education about the
countries they enter, a fact leading to deviant behaviour in the eyes of many
Iraqis, but yet the problem of the US forces in Iraq is not behaviong
deviant, but simply contraproductive. If the USA would have learned as much from
German Worldwar II experiences as they took our scientists, they could have won
Vietnam (or propably would not have entered it at all), but surely they would
not pay such a high bloodtoll in Iraq.
Entering hostile territory is never easy, but keeping occupied territory
quiet is even a harder task to manage. Looking back on German expierences the
USA should have learned the following:
# You cannot win a partisan/guerilla war.
# Everytime your forces are ambushed and you do punishment raids, the
guerillas will do punishment raids as well. But they will be more succesful than
you.
# Fighting guerillas is fighting people who got nothing to loose and are
willing to die for their cause, so killing them is like saying: Yes you are
right.
We experienced this on the Balkan, in Greece, Italy and of course Russia.
I do not know if these marines showen in the video were attacked in the
first place, but as you stated it was not an appropriate response to kill the
man. After all he was lying on the ground, visibly unable to act and seizing to
be a threat. Law imperates to help this man. I fully agree with 1SG Perry D.
Jefferies and am not able too add anything in this matter.
For the future I wish the very best for our Allies the United States of
America. Though I fear a political confrontation coming up between the EU and the
USA I still have hopes for a century as bright as the past. I hope Mr Bush
will loose next years election and wish you all the best, Merry Christmas and
Happy New Year. May their be peace in these strange times.
OG d. R. Christian U. Wohlthat
Einigkeit, Recht, Freiheit
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dork
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Tripledoc
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First impression.
It shows an unarmed man in clear distress being shot, trazer fire is clearly visible, then it zooms back to an American soldier. It is not clear that the shots were fired from an American position, but who would have been firing then? The soundtrack could have been added later. Nor is there any clear relevance between the incident and the interview.
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Tripledoc
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The subtext on the screen speaks of a former Enron employee having made a rap record blasting Enron.
Anyone know about this?
Edit: the newstext is for real.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
The narrator also sounds like she's an imitator.
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The narrator is Candy Crowley, CNN correspondet to the US Senate. It sounds like her an awful lot.
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
How do you know it's her? |
I can't be a hundred percent sure. I just think it sounds like her an awful lot. I remember her, because she is not the usual smiling bimbo, but a rather heavyset somewhat cynical person.
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mrmitchell
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quote:
3) A third clip of of a guy standing there holding a gun, who is acting VERY quiet and professional (notice no cheering or happy facial expressions) |
I don't know about you, but I sure as hell can't see through someone's head. Would you care to point out where their FACE is shown? All I see is the back of their head.
Regardless of WHERE the clip of the guy talking comes from, you just DON'T SAY "these guys are dead now" THAT ****ING CLOSE to "let's do it again, that was awesome". I don't care what and who the hell you're talking about, that's just a sick demented threat to humanity.
The cut between the two clips (writhing and the actual shooting) makes me wonder a little about the authenticity, but the story seems legit to me. Do we have any video experts?
(Why would CNN even air a tape of Iraqis dieing and Marines cheering? Are we already advancing to the level of ubernationalism that CNN feels it safe to do that?)
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Tripledoc
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
That "cheering" part is the biggest giveaway.
I hear about 3 guys cheering.
Then the shot pans over and I see 1 guy who is on his gun and doesn't look like he's cheering to me. |
Yes, but why would the camera neccesarily include the people cheering. An audio recorder records everything in 360 degrees within a certain distance. A camera has a limited field of vision.
All you have established is that (perhaps) the soldier in the shot did not participate in the cheering.
If you look at the angle from which the firing shots came, you will also notice that they did not come from the position of the camera.
Is it not normal combat procedure that when faced with an enemy, the soldiers should spread out in a firing line, and not neccesarily stay lumped together where the camera crew is?
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26-12-2003 03:21
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