08-02-2004 13:02									#61
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I used to be a manual junkie. But being as there aren't any good manuals anymore, I rarely pay attention anymore. I still read them.

da_hal has reminded me of the old 80's game like Bard's Tale. The manual (and the box even) had the layout of the city. They were more useful back then.

	08-02-2004 13:26									#62
	Got spare money?

quote: it just shows they're wasteful and perhaps unable to make a comprehensive in-game help system.

Of course not, you snob. Since it is an afterthought more often than not, a large manual shows that they are dedicated to giving you a great game experience. Those companies which have given large manuals have shown themselves to be some of the best ones.

	08-02-2004 14:49									#63
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Probably some truth in that; I think most agree here.........manuals are usually shoddier nowadays, and some but certainly not all of the slack has been taken up with in-game tutorials.

	08-02-2004 15:21									#64
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And, of course, a great manual doesn't mean bad in-game tutorials. One need only look at Baldur's Gate or Fallout for that.

I wish more manuals had more backstories and fun things like that as well. Those are really fun.

	08-02-2004 15:37									#65
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I wish more manuals had more backstories and fun things like that as well. Those are really fun.

I take it that you're the only person in the world that read the first part of the Homeworld Manual then


Incidently, my award for the most over the top manual of all time goes to that for Microsoft's Close Combat 1. For no obvious reason, that puppy included a 40 page history of WW2.

	08-02-2004 15:48									#66
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

First time I bought a game was Elite for the C64. It came with a comprehensive manual and a short novel playing in the Elite universe. I loved it.

Later a friend of mine owned Civ 1. It looked impressive so I borrowed the manual and read it front to cover in one sitting. Whoa!

Yeah, I really miss those manuals...

	08-02-2004 16:14									#67
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well, complex games make up less proportion of the total, and simple with nice eye-candy (and small manuals!) are the watchwords. Alas the golden age of the true gamer is over. We must just take what scraps we are thrown. You all know who to blame.

	08-02-2004 17:30									#68
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Gaming started to go downhill before "Sunday Gamers" were a force.

	08-02-2004 17:41									#69
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

There were always some shallow games, but the proportion has followed the rise of the Sunday gamer almost perfectly.

	08-02-2004 18:03									#70
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Maybe the Sunday gamer came about because shallow games soon became all that was on offer?

	08-02-2004 18:09									#71
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I think my direction of causality is more believable.

	08-02-2004 18:12									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: it just shows they're wasteful and perhaps unable to make a comprehensive in-game help system. Of course not, you snob. Since it is an afterthought more often than not, a large manual shows that they are dedicated to giving you a great game experience. Those companies which have given large manuals have shown themselves to be some of the best ones.

Snob? I'm not the one taking a pseudo-literary stance here.

Master of Orion 3 had a good manual. Lot's of back story, very readable, ect... It's a good thing that they where so dedicated and cared so much about giving a great gaming experience.

And then there's a game like Deus Ex. I mean, did it even have a manual? Clearly, they didn't care about giving a great gaming experience at all.

	08-02-2004 18:14									#73
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Talking about fun manuals, I just remembered reading the first two pages of the manual to Theme Hospital... great story... didn't teach me anything about the game though, but fun nevertheless

	09-02-2004 00:30									#74
	Tired of ads?

well the point is moot anyways.

With the restricted size of game boxes, is it still possible to include a great game manual now days?

	09-02-2004 00:42									#75
	Increase Your PM Length

That is a factor I'd say. They could put it on the cd of course, but some people here would prefer a chunky manual to a file on their cd I think.

	09-02-2004 01:56									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident well the point is moot anyways. With the restricted size of game boxes, is it still possible to include a great game manual now days?

Yes, it sure is. Sim City 4 (small box) included a decent manual. I say decent because it was short and expected people to already know SC concepts.

NWN came with an inch thick spiral-bound manual, listing all the spells, classes, tables, etc.

	09-02-2004 03:43									#77
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: I take it that you're the only person in the world that read the first part of the Homeworld Manual then

Oh, I've never really played Homeworld.

quote: Incidently, my award for the most over the top manual of all time goes to that for Microsoft's Close Combat 1. For no obvious reason, that puppy included a 40 page history of WW2.

SWEET!

quote: Later a friend of mine owned Civ 1. It looked impressive so I borrowed the manual and read it front to cover in one sitting. Whoa! Yeah, I really miss those manuals...

Me too . Civ 2's was great as well.

quote: Master of Orion 3 had a good manual. Lot's of back story, very readable, ect... It's a good thing that they where so dedicated and cared so much about giving a great gaming experience.

I never bought Moo3, so I can't analyize how good the manual was. One game that sucked with a good manual... man, that really proves your point .

quote: And then there's a game like Deus Ex. I mean, did it even have a manual?

Yes it did... it wasn't horrible, but nothing great either.

And I don't know why you brought it up, Deus Ex, while being a good game, had a sub-par tutorial / in game help. A lot of stuff was just trial-and-error if you hadn't read the manual.

quote: NWN came with an inch thick spiral-bound manual, listing all the spells, classes, tables, etc.

--

The best manuals were definetly the Interplay RPGs. Fallout 1 & 2, Baldur's Gate 1 & 2, Planescape: Torment. GREAT manuals. Morrowind could have used a better manual, perhaps with a nice history of the world (in addition to the history in the books).

Man, I miss those great manuals.

	09-02-2004 23:21									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Hueij Later a friend of mine owned Civ 1. It looked impressive so I borrowed the manual and read it front to cover in one sitting. Whoa! Yeah, I really miss those manuals...

The fun part of the civ 1 manual was the 'anti-piracy' protection. Prior to buying it I had an *ahem* unauthorized version *ahem* so I had to try to figure out the answers to the questions. I played it so much I eventually knew them all

	10-02-2004 00:27									#79
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You should have *ahem* a better version *ahem*, mine didn't have this problem...

As I later bought the game, I never actually played the original version... why risk that it might get destroyed, if you've got another copy

	10-02-2004 15:46									#80
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Ah, how the phrase 'anti-piracy protection' brings back happy memories of reading tiny black numbers printed on red cardboard.

	10-02-2004 15:50									#81
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Though Monkey Island was so funny it managed to even get a laugh from its copy protection. I still smile at the Lame-O-Copy protection system.

	10-02-2004 15:52									#82
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Never played it... how was it?

	10-02-2004 16:07									#83
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

The same style as those 'wheels' where you align stuff and read a code, but they were just taking the mickey.

	10-02-2004 16:12									#84
	Inflate your Upload Space

*Pulls old Monkey Island Box off the shelf*

When the game opened you were presented with the picture of a pirate and asked you the year the pirate was hanged in. You then matched up the top and bottom of that pirate's picture on a cardboard wheel that came with the game. When you did so the date the pirate was hanged appeared in a little hole in the wheel.

	10-02-2004 16:21									#85
	Remove this text

nice

	10-02-2004 17:30									#86
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I love reading manuals that have useful information in them. There's nothing worse than a manual to a detailed game that leaves out the important stuff because they want to flog a strategy guide.

	11-02-2004 00:30									#87
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

just got done reading most of the BG2 PDF manual. I had never read that manual despite playing that game through a few times. I never had the paper manual, didn't realize I had a pdf file.

While a PDF is better than nothing, I still miss books. I really feel like that person in Vault City in Fallout 2 who misses the day of books before everything went on holodisk . There's just something natural flipping pages back and forth.

BTW does anyone know how you can go to a specific page with acrobat reader? The BG2 manual is 266 pages, it takes a long time going through one page at a time- even with the mousewheel or the arrows down at the bottom.

	11-02-2004 05:04									#88
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Document - Go To Page or just ctrl-N should do it.

	11-02-2004 05:49									#89
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Stonekeep, a great game, had a decent manual.
More importantly: in the box was included a book "Thera's Awakening" which gave a background of the game. Very impressive, just like the game btw! I like it when developers do that, but I understand it's rather difficult to write a book along with your game.

	13-02-2004 00:29									#90
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What I miss is the tech tree posters that often came with the games.

...and yeah, I read the manuals - most of the time before I even load up the game on my system. Just to get a basic feel of what to expect when I do start playing...